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Using XCOM and Flight Line radios in certificated gliders
Hi,
A customer has asked me whether or not it is legal to install and use a non-FAA-approved radio such as the XCOM 760 or FlightLine FL-760 in a type certificated glider. XCOM's statement on the subject is copied below. Some aircraft mechanics and avionics shops seem OK with installing those radios and other flat refuse to. I don't have anything similar from FlightLine. Below is an excerpt from a note received from XCOM on this subject. "Our aircraft radio is not TSO'd but it does have the necessary FAA and FCC approvals for fitting into certified aircraft. In fact there are hundreds in the USA fitted to aircraft in either the standard or the primary category." He copied me on the FAA and FCC certificates - which are on my web site he http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/xcom.htm. The customer has an A&P that is very hesitant to approve the use of those radios - unless someone can show paperwork showing that they were received approval to do so - such as a 337 that was submitted and approved. I should know more about this, but I have received so many differing opinions, that I don't know what to believe. I imagine I'll get a million different opinions on this subject, and I welcome them. But opinions are not what the customer needs. He needs specific examples and paperwork - if possible. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Best Regards, Paul Remde Cumulus Soaring, Inc. |
#2
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Using XCOM and Flight Line radios in certificated gliders
"Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi, A customer has asked me whether or not it is legal to install and use a non-FAA-approved radio such as the XCOM 760 or FlightLine FL-760 in a type certificated glider. XCOM's statement on the subject is copied below. Some aircraft mechanics and avionics shops seem OK with installing those radios and other flat refuse to. I don't have anything similar from FlightLine. Below is an excerpt from a note received from XCOM on this subject. "Our aircraft radio is not TSO'd but it does have the necessary FAA and FCC approvals for fitting into certified aircraft. In fact there are hundreds in the USA fitted to aircraft in either the standard or the primary category." He copied me on the FAA and FCC certificates - which are on my web site he http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/xcom.htm. The customer has an A&P that is very hesitant to approve the use of those radios - unless someone can show paperwork showing that they were received approval to do so - such as a 337 that was submitted and approved. I should know more about this, but I have received so many differing opinions, that I don't know what to believe. I imagine I'll get a million different opinions on this subject, and I welcome them. But opinions are not what the customer needs. He needs specific examples and paperwork - if possible. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Best Regards, Paul Remde Cumulus Soaring, Inc. The obvious answer is to find a non-pain in the ass A&P. If they are having this problem what else is going to be an issue with this guy? We have enough problems in the field with poor radio installs. Lets focus on what ought to be focused on. Often battery problems, speaker and microphone and antenna issues. Those issues are not caused by lack of TSO paperwork on the radio. I wonder if he realizes the radio is likely to connect to a non-TSO antenna, mic and battery. Darryl |
#3
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Using XCOM and Flight Line radios in certificated gliders
On 8/19/11 11:15 AM, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I wonder if he realizes the radio is likely to connect to a non-TSO antenna, mic and battery. Heh, my Standard Airworthiness ASH-26E engine uses mostly stuff from the auto parts and hardware stores. This per the maintenance manual, so perhaps that makes them TSO.... -Tom |
#4
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Using XCOM and Flight Line radios in certificated gliders
From an old RAS posting by Rod Farlee:
------ Begin Quoting -------------------- TSO stands for Technical Standard Order. The FCC specifies operational requirements for most avionics. FAA TSO specs are environmental (temperature, humidity, vibration, shock), and in some cases, such as IFR GPS, are operational. A TSO has nothing to do with the manufacturing process (this is the concern of the FAA PMA, parts manufacturing approval, process). Try to buy a TSO'd DME, VFR GPS, GPS/COM or intercom and you'll find there are no TSOs for these items. Also there is no requirement for TSOs for anything used for FAR Part 91 operations except the transponder and ELT. (altimeter, too, if you have transponder) To install non-TSO'd equipment there is no requirement for an STC. A 377 "Major Alteration" form is needed only if the installation requires structural modifications to the airplane or fabrication of a mounting tray. Otherwise, it requires only a logbook entry by a radio shop or A&P with avionics inspection authorization that the physical installation conforms to AC 43 standard practices, and noting any change in aircraft weight and balance. There are some requirements for TSO'd equipment on airliners in FAR 121, but there are many exceptions (DME, entertainment, etc). There is enough confusion among FAA FSDO inspectors over the new PMA requirements that some of them seem to be making up there own rules in this area, but let's not make up our own! - Rod Farlee ------ End Quoting-------------------- Hope that this is helpful, Paul. -John ============= On Aug 19, 1:22 pm, "Paul Remde" wrote: Hi, A customer has asked me whether or not it is legal to install and use a non-FAA-approved radio such as the XCOM 760 or FlightLine FL-760 in a type certificated glider. XCOM's statement on the subject is copied below. Some aircraft mechanics and avionics shops seem OK with installing those radios and other flat refuse to. I don't have anything similar from FlightLine. Below is an excerpt from a note received from XCOM on this subject. "Our aircraft radio is not TSO'd but it does have the necessary FAA and FCC approvals for fitting into certified aircraft. In fact there are hundreds in the USA fitted to aircraft in either the standard or the primary category." He copied me on the FAA and FCC certificates - which are on my web site hehttp://www.cumulus-soaring.com/xcom.htm. The customer has an A&P that is very hesitant to approve the use of those radios - unless someone can show paperwork showing that they were received approval to do so - such as a 337 that was submitted and approved. I should know more about this, but I have received so many differing opinions, that I don't know what to believe. I imagine I'll get a million different opinions on this subject, and I welcome them. But opinions are not what the customer needs. He needs specific examples and paperwork - if possible. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Best Regards, Paul Remde Cumulus Soaring, Inc. |
#5
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Using XCOM and Flight Line radios in certificated gliders
Tom Serkowski wrote:
On 8/19/11 11:15 AM, Darryl Ramm wrote: I wonder if he realizes the radio is likely to connect to a non-TSO antenna, mic and battery. Heh, my Standard Airworthiness ASH-26E engine uses mostly stuff from the auto parts and hardware stores. This per the maintenance manual, so perhaps that makes them TSO.... -Tom But only the finest European motorcycle, automobile, and chainsaw (!) suppliers. And blessed by German engineers who drink only the purest beer. I do get worried by done of this. If an A&P really just does not have their head screwed on properly to be dealing with this I really worry wether they ought to be working on sailplanes. They may well do but it just raises some alarm bells about how much they know/work on gliders. OTOH maybe it's somebody in a FSDO being silly wanting 337 paperwork for something most FSDOs would wonder why an A&P is bothering them with paperwork for. Sigh. Darryl |
#6
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Using XCOM and Flight Line radios in certificated gliders
Heh, my Standard Airworthiness ASH-26E engine uses mostly stuff from the auto parts and hardware stores. This per the maintenance manual, so perhaps that makes them TSO.... -Tom But only the finest European motorcycle, automobile, and chainsaw (!) suppliers. And blessed by German engineers who drink only the purest beer. Yeah, OK, you're referring to the Reinheitsgebot sometimes called the "German Beer Purity Law". Around here we have the swineheitsgebot - we don't drink anything a pig wouldn't. :-) Tony "6N" |
#7
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Using XCOM and Flight Line radios in certificated gliders
to make it as quite simple ..........Radios (transceivers) have to have FCC
approval.....TSO is not a requirement for transceiver or for that matter most other equipment unless called out in the TCDS, or requirements under a specific Part of the FAR's for that 'required" operation typical usually to aircraft operated under Part 135, 121 and then when specifically called out for intended operation. If TSO were a requirement for all equipment in all aircraft then I think we'd be in for a big change when confronted with the opeation of all electric variometers, flight computers, PDA's Oudies, ClearNav's to name a few, even right down to simple electronic variometers, none of which have even been TSO'd or for that matter received even the most basic FAA approval of any issued and then installed......they, like radios for most glider operations are "optional" and non-required equipment for "most" operations...that being operated outside airspace where they are not required for operation of the aircraft Tim mara Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com "Paul Remde" wrote in message ... Hi, A customer has asked me whether or not it is legal to install and use a non-FAA-approved radio such as the XCOM 760 or FlightLine FL-760 in a type certificated glider. XCOM's statement on the subject is copied below. Some aircraft mechanics and avionics shops seem OK with installing those radios and other flat refuse to. I don't have anything similar from FlightLine. Below is an excerpt from a note received from XCOM on this subject. "Our aircraft radio is not TSO'd but it does have the necessary FAA and FCC approvals for fitting into certified aircraft. In fact there are hundreds in the USA fitted to aircraft in either the standard or the primary category." He copied me on the FAA and FCC certificates - which are on my web site he http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/xcom.htm. The customer has an A&P that is very hesitant to approve the use of those radios - unless someone can show paperwork showing that they were received approval to do so - such as a 337 that was submitted and approved. I should know more about this, but I have received so many differing opinions, that I don't know what to believe. I imagine I'll get a million different opinions on this subject, and I welcome them. But opinions are not what the customer needs. He needs specific examples and paperwork - if possible. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Best Regards, Paul Remde Cumulus Soaring, Inc. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6394 (20110819) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6394 (20110819) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com |
#8
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Using XCOM and Flight Line radios in certificated gliders
On Friday, August 19, 2011 4:58:18 PM UTC-4, Tony V wrote:
Yeah, OK, you're referring to the Reinheitsgebot sometimes called the "German Beer Purity Law". Around here we have the swineheitsgebot - we don't drink anything a pig wouldn't. :-) Tony "6N" Okay, now THAT'S funny. With your permission, I will post a copy of the Swineheitsgebot on the deck at Blairstown, where a 30 pack of Busch in cans is standard issue. P3 |
#9
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Using XCOM and Flight Line radios in certificated gliders
On 8/20/2011 7:39 AM, Papa3 wrote:
On Friday, August 19, 2011 4:58:18 PM UTC-4, Tony V wrote: Yeah, OK, you're referring to the Reinheitsgebot sometimes called the "German Beer Purity Law". Around here we have the swineheitsgebot - we don't drink anything a pig wouldn't. :-) Tony "6N" Okay, now THAT'S funny. With your permission, I will post a copy of the Swineheitsgebot on the deck at Blairstown, where a 30 pack of Busch in cans is standard issue. P3 LOL! Go for it. Tony http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING For me, it's either a good micro brew or a home brew. http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/RIMS |
#10
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Using XCOM and Flight Line radios in certificated gliders
Okay, I know this has gone way off topic, but...
One of the guys showed up at the field today with nothing less than Pork Slap Ale. Perhaps the new official brew of the Deck at Blairstown... http://www.butternutsbeerandale.com/ |
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