Challenger Crashe at TEB

"Stefan" wrote in message ...
Blueskies wrote:

Runways are selected to assure the ability to accelerate to V1 and then stop with maximum braking.

Isn't it the other way round: The runway length defines v1?

Stefan

Well, yea, gross takeoff weight and density altitude, etc control define V1, so you could look at a runway then decide
the max weight allowable for that day. You need to be sure that the runway is long enough to accel to V1 then stop...

"Stefan" wrote in message ...
George Patterson wrote:

No mention of the fact that the deceleration produced by barriers like that
would have killed everyone on board this aircraft had they been in place.

Maybe, maybe not, I don't know. But if that plane would have hit a school bus full of kids when crossing the road
and/or that warehouse would not have happened to be empty at that time, I bet the airport would already be closed
right now.

Stefdan

I don't think so...

"George Patterson" wrote in message ...


Jon Kraus wrote:

It looks like the Challenger skidded off the runway and crashed into a
warehouse at TEB.

Yesterday, NPR news stated that the mayor is pushing for reducing the number of
flights at TEB and installing "foam crash barriers" at the ends of the runway.

No mention of the fact that the deceleration produced by barriers like that
would have killed everyone on board this aircraft had they been in place.

George Patterson
He who would distinguish what is true from what is false must have an
adequate understanding of truth and falsehood.



Build some sort of ramp thing that would carry the plane up and over the road as it stops, like a runaway truck ramp
;-)

George Patterson wrote:

Jon Kraus wrote:

It looks like the Challenger skidded off the runway and crashed into a
warehouse at TEB.


Yesterday, NPR news stated that the mayor is pushing for reducing the number of
flights at TEB and installing "foam crash barriers" at the ends of the runway.

No mention of the fact that the deceleration produced by barriers like that
would have killed everyone on board this aircraft had they been in place.

Yes, but more voters drive cars on the hiqhway going past TEB than fly
out of it. That is all that matters to politicians.


Matt

Blueskies wrote:

Quite often Vr is faster than V1...

Knowing this, but being only SE rated, I've a question:

It seems that certain problems become apparent only at Vr. So why not use
that as the "size of runway/weight of aircraft" factor?


I'm also curious as to whether the aircraft in this accident gets the same
type of runup as do the little Cessnas I fly. One part of this is always
pulling the yoke back and confirming elevator movement (in the proper
direction).

- Andrew

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Blueskies wrote:

I've never heard of a modern bizjet using control locks, but I suppose
there are some that do.


Every one I have ever flown does, but I have not flown Challengers. I would
be they do though as they have to have wind gust protection while parked.

"Doug Carter" wrote in message
om...

Don't turbine aircraft POH's require sufficient runway length to stop
after an abort?

Yes, but an abort is predicated prior to or at V1 (takeoff decision speed),
not after the higher Vr (rotate speed).

"Blueskies" wrote in message
m...

Quite often Vr is faster than V1...

By definition Vr is never less than V1.

Every one I have ever flown does, but I have not flown Challengers. I would
be they do though as they have to have wind gust protection while parked.


Gary,
The challengers have dampers that come into effect when there is no
boost pressure. On Falcons, the hydraulic actuators essentially lock
up with no pressure. Neither require any other locks. If memory
serves, Gulfstream locks the rudder only.


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"Don Hammer" wrote in message
...
Gary,
The challengers have dampers that come into effect when there is no
boost pressure. On Falcons, the hydraulic actuators essentially lock
up with no pressure. Neither require any other locks. If memory
serves, Gulfstream locks the rudder only.

Thanks for the clarification. All the ones I have flown are cable actuated
and they of course have gust locks. Even so, one of our Lears had the
rudder stops beat up when a Falcon parked right behind us blew our rudder
around, even with the gust lock installed. Ouch.