Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 18:09:43 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

JGalban via AviationKB.com wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:
Unless things have changed drastically since I was dealing with
insurance matters vs airplanes, the issue insurance wise isn't poor
decision making but rather operating the aircraft CLEARLY OUTSIDE it's
documented operating limitations. In other words, if you fly over gross,
you are wide open if you have an accident WHILE the aircraft is being
operated over gross, for a potential fight with the insurance carrier.
I believe this is correct. Please feel free to check this out.
I'd be interested to know if this situation has changed.

This is what I asked my friend the insurance company lawyer. He tells me
that there has to be some language in the contract that excludes coverage for
operating outside operating limitations. The cannot make up exclusions after
the accident/incident. None of the policies I have says one word about
operating outside documented limitations. Anecdotally, I do know one
pilot that was tagged by the FAA for an incident while overweight. While the
FAA gave him 90 days to think about his error, the insurance company didn't
say boo.

The question is quite simple;
Is your insurance valid if you knowingly operate the insured aircraft in
violation of existing FAA regulations and the manufacturer's limitations
for gross weight? (Flying over gross without a waiver to do so I believe
meets both these parameters)

Well, the FAR part is obvious. If they denied claims for violating FARs,
they wouldn't have to pay 95% of claims. As for the rest, it's fairly
simple. If it's not in the contract, it's not grounds for denying a claim.

Interestingly, flying with a valid ferry permit generally invalidates
coverage. Specifically the requirement that the standard airworthiness cert.

I've flown the Deb on a ferry permit a number of times when it was out
of annual. Insurance company said, "Yes, I"m covered" as long as the
pilot is qualified, or meets their minimum qualifications AND I use a
vailid ferry permit. IOW it has to be inspected to be considered
airworthy to fly it to the FBO doing the annual.



be in effect. A ferry permit is a Special Airworthiness Cert. and does not
meet the standards in any policy I've had. Every plane I've ever ferried
required the insurance company to issue a specific waiver for the flight
under the permit, because the policy specifically states an exclusion for it.


John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Interesting. Changed indeed!
Roger (K8RI) ARRL Life Member
N833R (World's oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Bertie the Bunyip writes:

Yes, they are, compared to an A380 or the spruce goose.

A 747 is in the same class.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip writes:

Yes, they are, compared to an A380 or the spruce goose.

A 747 is in the same class.


No, it isn't, fjuukkwit.


Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote in
m:

george wrote: To MX


**** off. It can seat 6 or one pilot and 7 sky divers...
The BD5 can be called a 'tiny little aeroplane'



182 can seat 6? Really?


I think they used to have one of those kiddy benches available for those.
They even had them for 150s! I've never even seenone except in Cessna's
ads, though.



Bertie

Are you on acid? You can dream up more **** than a lame duck president.

"WingFlaps" wrote in message
...
On Apr 30, 1:20 am, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:
george wrote:
On Apr 29, 9:23 am, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:
george wrote: To MX

**** off. It can seat 6 or one pilot and 7 sky divers...
The BD5 can be called a 'tiny little aeroplane'
182 can seat 6? Really?

Yup. They call the bench at the back of the cabin kiddie seats..

Interesting, I've been around 182s since I could walk and probably
before I could walk and I've noticed such a thing.

The child seats are an option.

Cheers

Anyone got a reference on this? It was available on the 150, but I have
never seen anything on a 172 or 82.

"Gig 601Xl Builder" wrote in message
m...
george wrote: To MX


**** off. It can seat 6 or one pilot and 7 sky divers...
The BD5 can be called a 'tiny little aeroplane'



182 can seat 6? Really?

No, he's thinking of a 206.

If you remove the seats and top off only to half fuel, you can usually get
an extra jumper in a 182 or 206. Pilot plus 4 in the 182, and pilot plus 6
in the 206.

"Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net wrote in news:7R8Sj.111620$Ft5.106570
@newsfe15.lga:


"WingFlaps" wrote in message
news:fe83d7ef-c469-4d9d-b22e-69e460e71ea1
@q27g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 30, 1:20 am, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:
george wrote:
On Apr 29, 9:23 am, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:
george wrote: To MX

**** off. It can seat 6 or one pilot and 7 sky divers...
The BD5 can be called a 'tiny little aeroplane'
182 can seat 6? Really?

Yup. They call the bench at the back of the cabin kiddie seats..

Interesting, I've been around 182s since I could walk and probably
before I could walk and I've noticed such a thing.

The child seats are an option.

Cheers

Anyone got a reference on this? It was available on the 150, but I
have
never seen anything on a 172 or 82.


Yep, me.


Silly boi.



Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
"Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net wrote in news:7R8Sj.111620$Ft5.106570
@newsfe15.lga:


"WingFlaps" wrote in message
news:fe83d7ef-c469-4d9d-b22e-69e460e71ea1
@q27g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 30, 1:20 am, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:
george wrote:
On Apr 29, 9:23 am, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:
george wrote: To MX

**** off. It can seat 6 or one pilot and 7 sky divers...
The BD5 can be called a 'tiny little aeroplane'
182 can seat 6? Really?

Yup. They call the bench at the back of the cabin kiddie seats..

Interesting, I've been around 182s since I could walk and probably
before I could walk and I've noticed such a thing.

The child seats are an option.

Cheers

Anyone got a reference on this? It was available on the 150, but I
have
never seen anything on a 172 or 82.


Yep, me.


Silly boi.



Bertie

Yeah, but everyone knows you're a liar.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
do they now?




Bertie

Squirt, squirt.

On May 1, 1:15*pm, "Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net wrote:
"WingFlaps" wrote in message

...
On Apr 30, 1:20 am, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:

george wrote:
On Apr 29, 9:23 am, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:
george wrote: To MX

**** off. It can seat 6 or one pilot and 7 sky divers...
The BD5 can be called a 'tiny little aeroplane'
182 can seat 6? Really?

Yup. They call the bench at the back of the cabin kiddie seats..

Interesting, I've been around 182s since I could walk and probably
before I could walk and I've noticed such a thing.

The child seats are an option.

Cheers

Anyone got a reference on this? It was available on the 150, but I have
never seen anything on a 172 or 82.

Here ya go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_182

Cheers