If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Can gliders and powered aircraft co-exist using the same runway?
Can anyone identify an airport where gliders and powered aircraft use
the same runway? Do they use opposite traffic patterns? Any other operational issues? Ron Lee |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Can gliders and powered aircraft co-exist using the same runway?
Ames, IA
We often use grass infields for landing to avoid power traffic. We use the same traffic pattern direction. We have to launch on the runway though, a lot of our training in spring checkouts, flight reviews, etc. is on minimizing time on the runway. Incursions are getting better, the airport is home to many business jet operations and we dont want to make them go around. occasionally, all hell breaks lose Ron Lee wrote: Can anyone identify an airport where gliders and powered aircraft use the same runway? Do they use opposite traffic patterns? Any other operational issues? Ron Lee |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Can gliders and powered aircraft co-exist using the same runway?
They can exist on the same runway.. but it would depend on the volume of
traffic of each type. With a student doing touch and goes in the pattern, it would be difficult to "stage and launch" a glider without a good ground crew that can push the glider with the pilot already strapped in and ready for launch. A large area near the threshold for staging and being able to "launch at an angle to the runway and onto the runway" would work best. Also an area to land and then have the glider "roll clear" to the side would also work best. Runway side lights tend to cause a problem for this. I would suggest opposite patterns so you can see each other on downwind and base. At our airport we are lucky to have parallel paved runways, one for glider and one for power. Multiple glider operations does cause congestion on the glider runway, we do have a cleared infield and no runway lights on the "glider runway" so that landing gliders can roll clear, or if the runway is blocked by a landing glider, the next glider in the landing sequence can land on the infield, if not long or short. BT, CFIG "Ron Lee" wrote in message ... Can anyone identify an airport where gliders and powered aircraft use the same runway? Do they use opposite traffic patterns? Any other operational issues? Ron Lee |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Can gliders and powered aircraft co-exist using the same runway?
Simply put, there are no standards. I have flown at
sites where the patterns are the same, and at sites where they are on opposite sides of the runway. There are those who will insist that opposing each other on the base leg is suicidal because transient traffic will not understand, will do unexpected avoidance maneuvers, and throw everything into a scramble. At 04:54 13 January 2007, Bt wrote: They can exist on the same runway.. but it would depend on the volume of traffic of each type. With a student doing touch and goes in the pattern, it would be difficult to 'stage and launch' a glider without a good ground crew that can push the glider with the pilot already strapped in and ready for launch. A large area near the threshold for staging and being able to 'launch at an angle to the runway and onto the runway' would work best. Also an area to land and then have the glider 'roll clear' to the side would also work best. Runway side lights tend to cause a problem for this. I would suggest opposite patterns so you can see each other on downwind and base. At our airport we are lucky to have parallel paved runways, one for glider and one for power. Multiple glider operations does cause congestion on the glider runway, we do have a cleared infield and no runway lights on the 'glider runway' so that landing gliders can roll clear, or if the runway is blocked by a landing glider, the next glider in the landing sequence can land on the infield, if not long or short. BT, CFIG 'Ron Lee' wrote in message ... Can anyone identify an airport where gliders and powered aircraft use the same runway? Do they use opposite traffic patterns? Any other operational issues? Ron Lee |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Can gliders and powered aircraft co-exist using the same runway?
You might want to check AOPA also. If local procedures have changed,
they may not be reflected there. We had a recent power visitor that was briefed on local procedures, then proceeded to do what was on the AOPA web site. Enlightening to all concerned. A couple glider operations have lost their access to the parallel grass in recent years. Frank Whiteley Nyal Williams wrote: Simply put, there are no standards. I have flown at sites where the patterns are the same, and at sites where they are on opposite sides of the runway. There are those who will insist that opposing each other on the base leg is suicidal because transient traffic will not understand, will do unexpected avoidance maneuvers, and throw everything into a scramble. At 04:54 13 January 2007, Bt wrote: They can exist on the same runway.. but it would depend on the volume of traffic of each type. With a student doing touch and goes in the pattern, it would be difficult to 'stage and launch' a glider without a good ground crew that can push the glider with the pilot already strapped in and ready for launch. A large area near the threshold for staging and being able to 'launch at an angle to the runway and onto the runway' would work best. Also an area to land and then have the glider 'roll clear' to the side would also work best. Runway side lights tend to cause a problem for this. I would suggest opposite patterns so you can see each other on downwind and base. At our airport we are lucky to have parallel paved runways, one for glider and one for power. Multiple glider operations does cause congestion on the glider runway, we do have a cleared infield and no runway lights on the 'glider runway' so that landing gliders can roll clear, or if the runway is blocked by a landing glider, the next glider in the landing sequence can land on the infield, if not long or short. BT, CFIG 'Ron Lee' wrote in message ... Can anyone identify an airport where gliders and powered aircraft use the same runway? Do they use opposite traffic patterns? Any other operational issues? Ron Lee |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Can gliders and powered aircraft co-exist using the same runway?
Harnett County Airport, HRJ, near Erwin, North Carolina
(about halfway between Raleigh and Fayetteville). 5,000' paved runway. Gliders launch from paved runway and use a right traffic pattern. Power planes use 'standard' left pattern. Club has been there for about 19 years or so. For landing, gliders can use grass on either side of runway, but 'primary' grass area is to the right side. Landing on the pavement is done when grass is filled with other gliders or grass is too wet and ground too soft. While it is a county operated airport, the county only cuts the grass when it get's high enough to hide a glider, therefore, the club pays to have its area of operation cut. There's not that much traffic at the airport, but we have had an occassional power pilot doing touch and goes and we have to work our way into the sequence to launch. We try to have pilot strapped in and ready to go and pull him to the runway with golf cart, minimizing time on runway. If there is enough ground crew. There have been times where we have asked power traffic to extend their downwinds, and they do so without problems. Yes, in 19 years of operations, there have been some runway incursions on part of the glider. We do our best not to do so by keeping ears listening to the radio and eyes watching for traffic. We've set up on the runway when both 'straight in's' and 'normal left hand' traffic patterns were being flown by power pilots. In all cases, we just missed hearing their announcements on the radio and didn't see them until we were on the runway moments from launching. This doesn't happen often, but it has happened. We are doing much better job now of not doing it. Much better just by being more vigilant. Ray Lovinggood Carrboro, North Carolina, USA |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Can gliders and powered aircraft co-exist using the same runway?
Ron Lee schrieb: Can anyone identify an airport where gliders and powered aircraft use the same runway? Do they use opposite traffic patterns? Any other operational issues? Ron Lee it is possible. give a look up into http://www.segelflug-tirol.at Winch starts at the safety-strip along the rwy, landings 50 meters behind. B 757 in long final. best regards arturo |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Can gliders and powered aircraft co-exist using the same runway?
Our club operates at an uncontrolled municipal airport with a 3600' paved runway. There is no landing on the grass to the side of the runway as it is too rough. Depending on wind direction, we either take off from the grass with about a 300' run before crossing the threshold (gliders are airborne by this point) or pushed out onto the runway when going from the other end. Radio communication with the power pilots is crucial as there is alot of transient traffic. Club rule require that ships stop on the runway and then get pushed off. This is due to more than one encounter with runway lights that put the glider out of action for a time. I agree that opposing patterns is a recipe for disaster at our airport but it may work well elsewhere. We enter the pattern at 1000' - the same as power. That way everyone knows where to look for conflicts. As a somewhat interesting aside, we also have a medivac based at our field. The chopper sits well off the runway near a hanger. One day the chopper was spinning up as a launch was getting ready to go (no wing runner) at the opposite end of the field. Winds were light and variable and traffic was very light. I was at mid-field and could see both but it was unlikely they could see each other. I know the view of the chopper is obscured by aircraft on the ramp and assume he couldn't see the tug. I was walking and had no radio. The launched commenced and just as the tug got airborne the medivac lifted off and basically flew over the taxiway offset but head-on to the tug/glider. The tug pilot banked a little to increase the separation and both went on their merry ways. It was close but didn't require radical maneuvering by either pilot. Minutes later a CFI and FAA Airport Safety Officer (or some such title) came down and basically chewed me out for having the launch proceed while a medivac was taking off. She let me know in no uncertain terms that the medivac has the right of way and we should have waited. I told her a) I wasn't even there and b) once the tug/glider launch they have very limited ability to maneuver especially that close to the ground. There was no question that the launch started before the chopper lifted off. She didn't want to hear it and went off in a huff. When the tug pilot returned he said that he didn't see the chopper spinning up, announced his take off, heard nothing from the medivac and didn't view it as a particularly close call. I never talked to the medivac pilot and never heard any complaints from them. I did notice that the medivacs now seem to "taxi" out to the runway and take off down the runway rather than climbing out right from their pad. Just another thing to be aware of. Mike |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Can gliders and powered aircraft co-exist using the same runway?
Ron Lee wrote: Can anyone identify an airport where gliders and powered aircraft use the same runway? Do they use opposite traffic patterns? Any other operational issues? Ron Lee Brian and Gillian Spreckley used to launch their South African operation from the same runway in M'mabatho that 707s and 747s used for touch-and-gos. Glider patterns on one side, power on the other, and a control tower. Sequencing was interesting and sometimes very noisy, but far from impossible. For High Country Soaring's operations on Ely, Nevada's runway 18/36, gliders are staged alongside the overrun and taxiways for launch and pulled into place with golf carts. It worked very well. Landings had you stopping at the mid-field taxiway, and being whisked off by the crew. Jim |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Can gliders and powered aircraft co-exist using the same runway?
Adirondack Soaring flys out of Saratoga County Airport in Saratoga
Springs, New York with another Soaring Club and a heavy amount corporate jet traffic in the month of August. We use the same left hand traffic pattern and are forced to land on the asphalt runway due to an endangered species of butterfly that lives at the airfield. Things for the most part work fine. www.adirondacksoaring.com Ron Lee wrote: Can anyone identify an airport where gliders and powered aircraft use the same runway? Do they use opposite traffic patterns? Any other operational issues? Ron Lee |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Can gliders and powered aircraft co-exist on the same runway? | Ron Lee | Piloting | 18 | January 18th 07 02:36 AM |
Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo! | Larry Dighera | Soaring | 5 | September 1st 06 07:20 PM |
NTSB: USAF included? | Larry Dighera | Piloting | 10 | September 11th 05 10:33 AM |
Powered gliders = powered aircraft for 91.205 | Mark James Boyd | Soaring | 2 | December 12th 04 03:28 AM |
California Tax exemption - gone after Oct 1st | Limus A. | Soaring | 1 | August 6th 04 04:46 PM |