If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
Dave Butler wrote: Roy Smith wrote: wrote: Once it works, I believe your advantage with be with LPV minimums more than VNAV/LNAV minimums. The plate shows a catagory of "GLS PA DA", which I decode as "GPS Landing System, Precision Approach, Decision Altitude" (with minimums shown as NA). Is that the same as the LPV you're talking about? Take a look at RNAV(GPS) RWY 36 at OSH for an example of an approach with different LPV, VNAV, and LNAV minima. Dave Hmm, not so much difference as I would have thought. The LPV only gets you another 40 feet and 1/4 mile. Better than nothing, I guess, but still not an earth-shattering improvement. Is the idea that the synthetic GS for the LPV will be 3 degrees like a real GS, or will they be all sorts of different angles? I pretty much know what power settings I need to track a 3 degree GS, and it would be a shame if I couldn't leverage that knowledge on the LPV. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Thanks.
"J Haggerty" wrote in message news:fjBhd.93062$tU4.67667@okepread06... For a while, LNAV procedures with a stepdown were not allowed to be combined with a LNAV/VNAV. If you wanted a stepdown to get lower LNAV MDA, you had to create a separate procedure. That rule has since been rescinded, so you'll see future combined LNAV/VNAV and LNAV with a stepdown if appropriate. In the meantime, the "X" and "Y" procedures will remain as they are until amended, but amending them is not a priority. JPH Stan Prevost wrote: "Roy Smith" wrote in message ... Our local "big" airport has four ILS's to 200 ft DH, and various VOR, GPS, and NDB approaches. There are four new RNAV(GPS) approaches: for each runway (36L and 36R), there are two of these approaches (Y and Z). In each case, Z has LNAV and LNAV/VNAV minima, and Y has LNAV only. The Y and Z approaches have the same IAFs, IF, FAFs, and MAPs. The Z LNAV MDA is 545 ATDZE, the Z LNAV/VNAV MDA is 325 ATDZE, a 220 ft advantage. But on the Y approach, the LNAV MDA is 325 ATDZE. The only difference between the approaches is that Y has a stepdown fix after the FAF, which is apparently avoided by VNAV. Heck, with a 325 ft ATDZE MDA with LNAV alone, I sure don't need VNAV, if it just gets me to the same DA. And 325 is pretty darn good. It's curious to me that two approach plates were published for Y & Z, rather then combining them and noting the stepdown fix as applicable to LNAV only. Maybe it made for too much chart clutter. I hope we get the corresponding approaches for 18L and 18R. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Roy Smith wrote: wrote: Once it works, I believe your advantage with be with LPV minimums more than VNAV/LNAV minimums. The plate shows a catagory of "GLS PA DA", which I decode as "GPS Landing System, Precision Approach, Decision Altitude" (with minimums shown as NA). Is that the same as the LPV you're talking about? No. GLS is on hold. It would be equivalent to ILS. LPV is close to ILS, but not quite there. Here is the info in the current AIM (1-1-20): "2. A new type of APV approach procedure, in addition to LNAV/VNAV, is being implemented to take advantage of the lateral precision provided by WAAS. This lateral precision, combined with an electronic glidepath allows the use of TERPS approach criteria very similar to that used for present precision approaches, with adjustments for the larger vertical containment limit. The resulting approach procedure minima, titled LPV, may have decision altitudes as low as 250 feet height above touchdown with visibility minimums as low as 1/2 mile, when the terrain and airport infrastructure support the lowest minima. LPV will be published on the RNAV (GPS) approach charts (see paragraph 5-4-5, Instrument Approach Procedure Charts)." |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Another issue is that right now only airlines can really make use of this stuff anyway, since relatively few people are flying behind v2 GNS-480s. This is why Jane Garvey said in her AOPA speech that it's important for pilots to go out and get new equipment that can make use of this. Of course, I'd like to see her agency help by making it easier to certify and install such equipment. There's no reason it should cost $15,000 to do so. Jane Garvey? ;-) The airlines are NOT making use of WAAS. They have basically told the FAA to take WAAS and shove it. Almost no airline aircraft have WAAS. In fact, all the aircraft produced prior to the early 1990s don't even have GPS unless they have been upgraded (a very expensive upgrade for that type of aircraft certification process). The airlines are in the financial fight of their corporate lives. They couldn't care less about WAAS and LPV. |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
"Barry" wrote in message ...
The plate shows a catagory of "GLS PA DA", which I decode as "GPS Landing System, Precision Approach, Decision Altitude" (with minimums shown as NA). Is that the same as the LPV you're talking about? GLS does stand for "GPS Landing System," and would provide capability equivalent to CAT I ILS (200 ft decision height/altitude). WAAS was originally supposed to provide this, but due to integrity issues is only good down to 250 ft, which is the limit for LPV approaches. Current plans for WAAS upgrades include better coverage and redundancy, but not GLS. There are tentative plans to modernize GPS and add a new civil frequency; if this is done, then WAAS might provide GLS at some time after 2013. Just a nitpick: GLS actually stands for "GNSS Landing System." The intention is have the term encompass any satellite navigation system, of which "GPS" (the U.S. based system) is (currently the only certified operational) one. It can eventually apply to the European, Japanese, Indian, etc., systems if/when those systems support it. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
wrote in message ... The airlines are NOT making use of WAAS. They have basically told the FAA to take WAAS and shove it. Almost no airline aircraft have WAAS. In fact, all the aircraft produced prior to the early 1990s don't even have GPS unless they have been upgraded (a very expensive upgrade for that type of aircraft certification process). No, but they do use LNAV/VNAV with FMS-derived VNAV. Northwest and a few others got approval for this a few years back IIRC and that's why those new descent profiles started popping up on Jepp plates. It's also why the new approaches are all called RNAV and not GPS. -cwk. |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
C Kingsbury wrote: wrote in message ... The airlines are NOT making use of WAAS. They have basically told the FAA to take WAAS and shove it. Almost no airline aircraft have WAAS. In fact, all the aircraft produced prior to the early 1990s don't even have GPS unless they have been upgraded (a very expensive upgrade for that type of aircraft certification process). No, but they do use LNAV/VNAV with FMS-derived VNAV. Northwest and a few others got approval for this a few years back IIRC and that's why those new descent profiles started popping up on Jepp plates. It's also why the new approaches are all called RNAV and not GPS. No doubt about it. Most of them use their GPS-equipped aircraft for LNAV/VNAV as an ILS backup at major airports and as primary IAPs at a few airports. But, that has everything to do with GPS and nothing to do with WAAS. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
|
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Matt Whiting wrote: True, they want LAAS at just the airports that they use. Correct, LAAS, not WAAS. |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
CNS-80 VNAV | John R. Copeland | Instrument Flight Rules | 17 | October 28th 04 04:24 AM |
GPS/WAAS VNAV approaches and runway length | Nathan Young | Instrument Flight Rules | 8 | October 25th 04 06:16 PM |
Closest SDF, LDA and LOC-BC Approaches | Andrew Sarangan | Instrument Flight Rules | 17 | June 5th 04 03:06 PM |
Terminology of New WAAS, VNAV, LPV approach types | Tarver Engineering | Instrument Flight Rules | 2 | August 5th 03 03:50 AM |
Garmin Behind the Curve on WAAS GPS VNAV Approaches | Richard Kaplan | Instrument Flight Rules | 24 | July 18th 03 01:43 PM |