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#1
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U-234 and Me262
I've been following the thread on the U-234 and was most intetested in
the statement that there was a Me262 on board. Can anyone provide any substantial evidence of this, other than the statement that there was one on board? And if there was one on board what happened to it? I would assume that if there was one aboard that it remained in Navy hands. There doesn't appear to be any Navy records of it. Walt -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- |
#2
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"vzlion" wrote in message ... I've been following the thread on the U-234 and was most intetested in the statement that there was a Me262 on board. Can anyone provide any substantial evidence of this, other than the statement that there was one on board? And if there was one on board what happened to it? I would assume that if there was one aboard that it remained in Navy hands. There doesn't appear to be any Navy records of it. Walt There was no complete Me-262, there were components for one. The cargo was carried in multiple containers fitted in place of the mines the type normally carried. Given that the sllies captured hundreds of intact Me-262's many in flyable condition I doubt much was done with these bits. Keith |
#3
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"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"vzlion" wrote in message ... I've been following the thread on the U-234 and was most intetested in the statement that there was a Me262 on board. Can anyone provide any substantial evidence of this, other than the statement that there was one on board? And if there was one on board what happened to it? I would assume that if there was one aboard that it remained in Navy hands. There doesn't appear to be any Navy records of it. Walt There was no complete Me-262, there were components for one. The cargo was carried in multiple containers fitted in place of the mines the type normally carried. Given that the sllies captured hundreds of intact Me-262's many in flyable condition I doubt much was done with these bits. Keith To be more exact there were 240 tons of German documents and war materials aboard U-234. The war material included 560 kg of Uranium Oxide, jet & rocket components for missiles and aircraft, the latest proximity fuses and AP shells, a complete pressurized pilot's chamber, and various other stocks of strategic materials along with components to various guidance systems. The boat also carried several Messerschmitt engineers with documents on the latest jet aircraft... but no complete aircraft, just components in storage containers. Rob |
#4
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"robert arndt" wrote in message om... "Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ... "vzlion" wrote in message ... I've been following the thread on the U-234 and was most intetested in the statement that there was a Me262 on board. Can anyone provide any substantial evidence of this, other than the statement that there was one on board? And if there was one on board what happened to it? I would assume that if there was one aboard that it remained in Navy hands. There doesn't appear to be any Navy records of it. Walt There was no complete Me-262, there were components for one. The cargo was carried in multiple containers fitted in place of the mines the type normally carried. Given that the sllies captured hundreds of intact Me-262's many in flyable condition I doubt much was done with these bits. Keith To be more exact there were 240 tons of German documents and war materials aboard U-234. The war material included 560 kg of Uranium Oxide, jet & rocket components for missiles and aircraft, the latest proximity fuses and AP shells, a complete pressurized pilot's chamber, and various other stocks of strategic materials along with components to various guidance systems. To my knowledge the Germans never developed a true proximity fise as they lacked the cavity magnetron and miniaturized electronics necessary.IRC correctly the best they could manage was the "Kranich" acoustic proximity fuze. The boat also carried several Messerschmitt engineers with documents For several read two, August Bringewalde, Willi Messerschmitt's "right-hand man" who was in charge of ME 262 production, and Franz Ruf, an industrial machinery specialist who designed machines and appliances to manufacture aircraft components. on the latest jet aircraft... but no complete aircraft, just components in storage containers. correct Keith |
#5
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"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ... "robert arndt" wrote in message om... "Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ... "vzlion" wrote in message ... SNIP To my knowledge the Germans never developed a true proximity fise as they lacked the cavity magnetron and miniaturized electronics necessary.IRC correctly the best they could manage was the "Kranich" acoustic proximity fuze. By the time the shipment had been readied, the German had in their possession possibly several dozen "dud" Allied proximity fuses, recovered from the battlefield. Gen Eisenhower had authorized the use of these devices over land at the onset of the Ardennes Offensive. German authorities offered soldiers a bounty for the recovery of partial or complete "duds". Their analysis revealed the super-tough tubes employed therein. However, no Allied proximity fuse developed duringWWII used the resonant cavity magnetron. Research and development on the miniaturization of such devices had not begun by the end of the conflict in Europe. Instead, a radio signal on a lower frequency was used. As best I've been able to learn, the characteristics of the cavitron were better and more fully understood only long after the war, when it was realized that these devices could be fabricated from a far lesser amount of material (and from materials less dear than copper) than formerly had been used. A form of "smart" artillery shells was built, (at least in the US, during the 1970's) using a rather tiny, shrunken cavitron in conjunction with some form of "guidance fins" on the shell body. The cavitron allowed friendly artillery to loft shells to the area of an enemy advance; other circuitry connected to the return radio-wave receiver could discern between a target of great mass (i.e., armor) and a target of lesser mass (i.e., a lorry) and to "select" the more massive (and presumably more valuable) target, for which the "fins" served for terminal steering. Individual shells could either achieve a direct hit on the selected target, or detonate overhead of it within sufficient proximity to disable a tank or self-propelled artillery, for example. SNIP |
#6
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"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ... "Lawrence Dillard" wrote in message ... SNIP To my knowledge the Germans never developed a true proximity fise as they lacked the cavity magnetron SNIP proximity fuze. By the time the shipment had been readied, the German had in their possession possibly several dozen "dud" Allied proximity fuses, recovered from the battlefield. SNIP More alarming was the capture of an ammunition dump that included stock of intact unfired shells. The allies didnt know if the Germans had seized any and so launched a crash investigation to see if jamming the fuze was possible As I understand the situation, early firing trails at sea disclosed that certain types of clouds could cause proximity shells to detonate as if a true target ad been encountered. This realization led to research into whether such fuzes could deliberately be "foxed" by an enemy; circuitry was incorporated into production items to neutralize such attempts. The Germans apparently overran not one but several several US ammo dumps in the first hours of the offensive, but in their haste failed to notice that the fuzes of certain batches of US shells were somewhat different from the run-of-the-mill, and therefore left them undisturbed. After all, as far as the Germans were concerned, only the Third Reich had Secret Weapons. Otto Skorzeny himself allegedly was the recipient of the first such shell used by Allied forces, (without due authorization) also in the early hours of the attack. He added to his collection of wounds in the incident when his armored vehicle was fired on by a proximity-fuzed shell. However, no Allied proximity fuse developed duringWWII used the resonant cavity magnetron. SNIP Instead, a radio signal on a lower frequency was used. The frequency used was 180 to 220 MHz according to http://www.smecc.org/radio_proximity_fuzes.htm Accepting that as accurate, Microwave Radio emissions encompass the range of 3,000MHZ--30,000MHZ frequency at wavelengths of from 10 CM--1CM. Radar at 180-220MHZ frequency should prove to have a wavelength of at least a meter. As usual, I am open to correction on the matter, but neither the frequency quoted above nor the associated wavelength meet the requirements of Microwave Radio transmission. |
#7
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To be more exact there were 240 tons of German documents and war materials aboard U-234. The war material included 560 kg of Uranium Oxide, jet & rocket components for missiles and aircraft, the latest proximity fuses and AP shells, a complete pressurized pilot's chamber, and various other stocks of strategic materials along with components to various guidance systems. To my knowledge the Germans never developed a true proximity fise as they lacked the cavity magnetron and miniaturized electronics necessary.IRC correctly the best they could manage was the "Kranich" acoustic proximity fuze. Try all these: Bad: Acoustic, Graf Zeppelin Institute Elku/Paplitz: Electro-Acoustic, ELAK, Kiel Fuchs: Radio, AEG, Berlin Isegrimm: Electrmagnetic, Ernst Orlich Institute, Danzig Kakadu: Radio, Donaulandische GmbH, Vienna (3000 produced for Hs 293) Kranich: Acoustic, Ruhrstahl AG, Brackwede Kugelblitz: Radio, Patebt Verwertungs Gesellschaft, Salzburg Kuhglocke: Electrostatic, Rheinmetall-Borsig Lotte: IR Marabu: Radio, Siemens-Halske Marder: Radio, Ernst Orlich Institute, Danzig Meise: Acoustic, Neumann & Borm, Berlin Pinscher: Radio, Ernst Orlich Institute, Danzig Pistole: Photo-Electric Roulette: IR, Brinckmann, Gera Stimmgabel: Acoustic, Graf Zeppelin Institute Trichter: Radio, Blaupunkt Wassermaus: Photo-Electric Wiesel: Radio, Ernst Orlich Institute, Danzig Zunder-19: Aerial bomb prox. fuse for burst height of 25-30 ft above ground, Rheinmetall-Borsig At least some of these were on U-234... The boat also carried several Messerschmitt engineers with documents For several read two, August Bringewalde, Willi Messerschmitt's "right-hand man" who was in charge of ME 262 production, and Franz Ruf, an industrial machinery specialist who designed machines and appliances to manufacture aircraft components. What about Dr. Schauerns and Dr. von Chiligensberg also? on the latest jet aircraft... but no complete aircraft, just components in storage containers. correct Keith Rob |
#8
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Upon further reading on U-234 I discovered that the proximity fuses
onboard were of the IR type. Rob |
#9
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"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Lawrence Dillard" wrote in message ... "Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ... "robert arndt" wrote in message om... "Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ... "vzlion" wrote in message ... SNIP To my knowledge the Germans never developed a true proximity fise as they lacked the cavity magnetron and miniaturized electronics necessary.IRC correctly the best they could manage was the "Kranich" acoustic proximity fuze. By the time the shipment had been readied, the German had in their possession possibly several dozen "dud" Allied proximity fuses, recovered from the battlefield. Gen Eisenhower had authorized the use of these devices over land at the onset of the Ardennes Offensive. German authorities offered soldiers a bounty for the recovery of partial or complete "duds". Their analysis revealed the super-tough tubes employed therein. More alarming was the capture of an ammunition dump that included stock of intact unfired shells. The allies didnt know if the Germans had seized any and so launched a crash investigation to see if jamming the fuze was possible However, no Allied proximity fuse developed duringWWII used the resonant cavity magnetron. Research and development on the miniaturization of such devices had not begun by the end of the conflict in Europe. Instead, a radio signal on a lower frequency was used. The frequency used was 180 to 220 MHz according to http://www.smecc.org/radio_proximity_fuzes.htm Keith At least for aerial proximity fuses the allies had already developed jamming methods for their own fuses during developement of their own fuses in the event that the Germans began using these type of fuses against the Allied bomber fleets. The fuses were triggered by a combination of doppler shift and the intensity of the reflected wave. Jamming involved a motor driven tuner shifting through the frequencies used by the shells to spoof a doppler shift. "Super tough" valves weren't the real secret to the proximity fuse. PWB printed wireing boards were in part. The real secret seems to have been packing the electronics into waxes and oil. |
#10
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"Keith Willshaw" writes:
To my knowledge the Germans never developed a true proximity fise as they lacked the cavity magnetron and miniaturized electronics necessary.IRC correctly the best they could manage was the "Kranich" acoustic proximity fuze. Err.. my memory is the two were quite separate. ISTM the proximity fuses were in the 150 mhz range, NOT microwave at all. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
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