Would you cycle the gear?

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in
s.com:

the airline world, there is a Capt. Haynes who made a landing in South
Dakota a number of years ago who probably agrees as well that
independent thinking by an airline pilot is a good thing.

Yeah, but he had a bit of a different situation. He had a POH which said
it couldn't happen!!! Heck, even after they managed to get patched in to
Boeing, the engineers kept telling him that he was wrong and that there
could not be anything wrong with the hydraulics.

As you said, sometimes the "man on the spot" just has to think for himself.

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in
s.com:

I was with a student in one of our club Arrows. We put the gear down
and got green lights for the 2 mains, but not for the nose.

Would activating the emergency gear extension system have been an
option to extend the nose gear in case it were down but not fully
locked?

"Sort of..." Since the two mains were down and locked there was no
pressure left in the system. Pressing the emergency gear extension knob
does nothing but release pressure, and so nothing new would have happened.

The procedure would have been to RETRACT the gear (if possible), slow down,
pull the CB, and THEN push the emergency gear extension knob. If the pump
were failing, then this faster release of pressure might do the trick.
OTOH, if there were a mechanical problem, then there are any number of
hypothetical situations where it might not even come down as well as
before.

You pays yer dollahs, and takes yer chances! G

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

Richard Kaplan ) wrote:

: And even in the airline world, there is a Capt. Haynes who made a landing
: in South Dakota a number of years ago who probably agrees as well that
: independent thinking by an airline pilot is a good thing.
:

You're thinking of United Flight 232, a DC-10 whose #2 engine failed
taking out all three hydraulic systems; the plane crashed in Sioux City,
Iowa:

http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-ua232.shtml
AirDisaster.Com: Special Report: United Airlines Flight 232

--Jerry Leslie
Note: is invalid for email

"leslie" wrote in message
...

You're thinking of United Flight 232, a DC-10 whose #2 engine failed
taking out all three hydraulic systems; the plane crashed in Sioux City,
Iowa:


Yes, I confused Sioux City with Sioux Falls... sorry.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"Robert Moore" wrote in message
. 6...

Didn't have a POH in a DC-10 cockpit. He probably had an Aircraft Flight
Manual, and I haven't seen an AFM yet that has said that something could
not happen.

Very well... so the basic point stands, which is that indepdent thinking by
a pilot who know his airplane's systems can be a very good thing.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"James M. Knox" wrote

Yeah, but he had a bit of a different situation. He had a POH which said
it couldn't happen!!!

Didn't have a POH in a DC-10 cockpit. He probably had an Aircraft Flight
Manual, and I haven't seen an AFM yet that has said that something could
not happen.

Heck, even after they managed to get patched in to Boeing,

Why did he call Boeing with a problem in a Douglas (MD) aircraft?

the engineers kept telling him that he was wrong and that there
could not be anything wrong with the hydraulics.

Maybe he should have talked to the engineers at McDonald-Douglas.

Bob Moore
ATP B-707, B-727, L-188
PanAm (retired)

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
s.com...


"Robert Moore" wrote in message
. 6...

Didn't have a POH in a DC-10 cockpit. He probably had an Aircraft
Flight
Manual, and I haven't seen an AFM yet that has said that something could
not happen.

Very well... so the basic point stands, which is that indepdent thinking
by
a pilot who know his airplane's systems can be a very good thing.

That all depends on how much engineering the Manufacturer puts into their
products.

Robert Moore writes:


Didn't have a POH in a DC-10 cockpit. He probably had an Aircraft Flight
Manual, and I haven't seen an AFM yet that has said that something could
not happen.

Heck, even after they managed to get patched in to Boeing,

Why did he call Boeing with a problem in a Douglas (MD) aircraft?

Because Boeing owns MD, I suspect.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

David Lesher wrote

Why did he call Boeing with a problem in a Douglas (MD) aircraft?

Because Boeing owns MD, I suspect.

Now yes...but then???

Bob Moore

Robert Moore wrote in
. 6:

Yeah, but he had a bit of a different situation. He had a POH which
said it couldn't happen!!!

Didn't have a POH in a DC-10 cockpit. He probably had an Aircraft
Flight Manual, and I haven't seen an AFM yet that has said that
something could not happen.

Loose wording, I admit. But that's what he says in his talks... that there
is nothing in the manual for what to do, because they considered it
impossible. And that after they started consulting with the engineers,
they were repeatedly assured that it could NOT be a failure of the
hydraulic system.

Heck, even after they managed to get patched in to Boeing,

Why did he call Boeing with a problem in a Douglas (MD) aircraft?

All the MacAir guys I know are wearing badges that say Boeing. That's why I
said Boeing.


-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------