CBS "News" strikes AGAIN

Tom Sixkiller wrote:


And the point is that now matter how much they like to terach or how much
_desire_ they have, they still don't know HOW the human mind, especially in
children, grasps data nd makes sense of it.


If you think all human minds grasp data and make sense of it in the same way you
are highly mistaken. Try reading Gardner for a start and then look up all you
can on learning styles (Dunn and Dunn would be a good start). While none of
these theories should be taken as the perfect solution either you can learn
quite a bit from them.

Margy

Tom Sixkiller wrote:


How they learn specific skills, and how they learn to conceptualize will
likely be different, but that in no way means they can escape learning the
trait the differs humans from other animals.

That would be the opposable thumb. :-)

Margy

Dude wrote:

Teachers I have talked too care less about the money and more about the fact
that they have ZERO control in the classroom. The students have a right to
do whatever they please wthout recourse. Only the best leaders are capable
of controlling a classroom through force of personality. Enough of those
people might be recruited with lots more money, but maybe not.

The quicker solution is to either bring back corporal punishment and
expulsions, or go with vouchers that will allow a free market to separate
the children of idiots from the children of responsible parents.

I don't think corporal punishment is the answer. I'm lucky enough to work in a
building where I can have control in my classroom (and I specialize in
emotionally disturbed students!!). We do need strict and enforced rules in
schools. We also need teachers who respect their students as individuals and
parents who expect their children to respect teachers as individuals. (also
parents who expect children to respect parents!). I've seen way too many
children who are in control of their houses.

Margy



"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Judah" wrote in message
...
"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in
:


"Jordan" wrote in message
...

If we have to have celebrity endorsement, then our nation is too brain
dead to endure and is finished.

That's what happens when teachers make minimum wage, and celebrities
make
$100,000 an episode...

Teachers hardly make minimun wage. Even if we paid them $100K, they don't
know _how_ to teach (besides being beholden to the unions). Further, even
those who LOVE to teach, still miss HOW the human mind learns and grasps
information in the form of concepts. That's why most all of "education" is
now BY ROTE.

Margy Natalie wrote:

Tom Sixkiller wrote:


How they learn specific skills, and how they learn to conceptualize will
likely be different, but that in no way means they can escape learning the
trait the differs humans from other animals.

That would be the opposable thumb. :-)

Taken a good look at a racoon lately?

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

Tom Sixkiller wrote:

"Dude" wrote in message
...
I figured you would want to throw parents who wouldn't pay for their kids
education into jail. Looks like it was a bad guess.

People would educate their kids that same way the feed them, cloth them,
care for their health..the same way they do those things for them now. If
they fail to do those things now, we call it...what?

There are LOTS of parents who don't feed, cloth and care for their children. At
least these kids get 2 meals a day and a safe place to go for 6.5 hours a day.
It's called PUBLIC SCHOOL.

Margy





"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Dude" wrote in message
...
Tom,

Making the parents more involved by making them pay would be great,
but
I
am
not gonna hold my breath. Also, I am not sure that the end result
would
be
a net improvement. Many parents are such numbskulls that the kids may
end
up getting even less education.

I know what you are thinking, but there is not room in the jails for
all
the
parents who fit this bill.

Jail? How does that fit?

So, I will agree with you in theory, but have to
disagree in what is practical (at least until congress is taken over
by
libertarians).

Until the majority of people change between their ears, nothing is going
to
change/improve _politically_.
As long as the notion of public schools is predominnt, it will continue
its
course.

"You can't change a country through the politcal process; you can only
change people's point-of-view (ie, political views/outlook).



OUT


"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Dude" wrote in message
...
Teachers I have talked too care less about the money and more
about
the
fact
that they have ZERO control in the classroom. The students have a
right
to
do whatever they please wthout recourse. Only the best leaders are
capable
of controlling a classroom through force of personality. Enough
of
those
people might be recruited with lots more money, but maybe not.

The quicker solution is to either bring back corporal punishment
and

expulsions, or go with vouchers that will allow a free market to
separate
the children of idiots from the children of responsible parents.

Right there you hit the nail on the head...kinda.

If parents had to pay for their kids education out of THEIR pocket,
instead
of their neighbors, damn sure they would pay attention to their kids
learning and behavior. Ain't going to happen in tax funded schools.

Margy's posts echo everything my wife -- a dedicated public school
teacher -- has said about Montessori schools, teaching methods, etc. And my
wife's not even a pilot.

Henry

"Margy Natalie" wrote in message
...


Tom Sixkiller wrote:

"Dude" wrote in message
...
I figured you would want to throw parents who wouldn't pay for their
kids
education into jail. Looks like it was a bad guess.

People would educate their kids that same way the feed them, cloth them,
care for their health..the same way they do those things for them now.
If
they fail to do those things now, we call it...what?

There are LOTS of parents who don't feed, cloth and care for their
children. At
least these kids get 2 meals a day and a safe place to go for 6.5 hours a
day.
It's called PUBLIC SCHOOL.

Margy





"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Dude" wrote in message
...
Tom,

Making the parents more involved by making them pay would be
great,
but
I
am
not gonna hold my breath. Also, I am not sure that the end result
would
be
a net improvement. Many parents are such numbskulls that the kids
may
end
up getting even less education.

I know what you are thinking, but there is not room in the jails
for
all
the
parents who fit this bill.

Jail? How does that fit?

So, I will agree with you in theory, but have to
disagree in what is practical (at least until congress is taken
over
by
libertarians).

Until the majority of people change between their ears, nothing is
going
to
change/improve _politically_.
As long as the notion of public schools is predominnt, it will
continue
its
course.

"You can't change a country through the politcal process; you can
only
change people's point-of-view (ie, political views/outlook).



OUT


"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Dude" wrote in message
...
Teachers I have talked too care less about the money and more
about
the
fact
that they have ZERO control in the classroom. The students
have a
right
to
do whatever they please wthout recourse. Only the best leaders
are
capable
of controlling a classroom through force of personality.
Enough
of
those
people might be recruited with lots more money, but maybe not.

The quicker solution is to either bring back corporal
punishment
and

expulsions, or go with vouchers that will allow a free market
to
separate
the children of idiots from the children of responsible
parents.

Right there you hit the nail on the head...kinda.

If parents had to pay for their kids education out of THEIR
pocket,
instead
of their neighbors, damn sure they would pay attention to their
kids
learning and behavior. Ain't going to happen in tax funded
schools.

"Margy Natalie" wrote in message
...


Tom Sixkiller wrote:

"Dude" wrote in message
...
I figured you would want to throw parents who wouldn't pay for their
kids
education into jail. Looks like it was a bad guess.

People would educate their kids that same way the feed them, cloth
them,
care for their health..the same way they do those things for them now.
If
they fail to do those things now, we call it...what?

There are LOTS of parents who don't feed, cloth and care for their
children. At
least these kids get 2 meals a day and a safe place to go for 6.5 hours
a
day.
It's called PUBLIC SCHOOL.


It's better termed "Public Day Care"...right up to age 18. In the mean time,
those there to LEARN are putting up with the encumbrance.


If people want "day care", have romper rooms all over the place, but don't
make schools a daytime babysitter, to augment the evening babysitter...that
being the "Boob Tube".

Notice how the situation continues to deteriorate in parallel with the level
of parental responsibility. No amount of cash will solve it.

Margy,

I must challenge this statement:

"Contray to the uninformed opinion of other posters teachers really do study
how
minds work."

I was with you all the way until I got to this one. Either your positive
attitude, or an unusually positive series of coincidences has shaded your
judgement on the interest in childrens' minds held by many teachers today.
I am not uninformed. A close personal friend of mine is a public school
teacher, and I attended several public and private schools. Unlike many
people, I have a good memory of what transpired.

While perhaps not a majority, many teachers have quit caring enough. I
don't necessarily blame it on the teachers, but I do blame them for not
quitting. That's right, stop whining and vote with your feet. Too many
teachers today are simply filling the job because they feel helpless, or no
longer care, but for various reasons do not quit.

Parents, administrators, and union hacks will not get together on this
problem until the teachers stop talking and act. If a teacher has stopped
being a student of the art of educating children, they should not be in the
classroom (just like pilots who have stopped learning are dangerous in the
cockpit).

I suppose that your experience with such a gifted child has led you to have
better teachers. Teaching the bright kids takes more energy and talent than
many of today's teachers have.


"Margy Natalie" wrote in message
...


Judah wrote:

My kids are just starting in school. My son is in 3rd grade and my
daughter
will start Kindergarden next fall.

Please advise on how I can ensure that my children grasp the knowledge
presented to them.

Ask higher order questions on Blooms Taxonomy (analysis and synthesis
questions) about the material they are presented. They need to know the
who,
what, when , but the why and how shows understanding.

Don't push abstract concepts on young children!! Earlier is not better!
Read
some Piaget. Don't teach little kids algebra (my 140 + IQ daughter
struggled
through algebra in 7th grade and would have done fine in 8th. Even though
she's good in math (A in second semester Calculus as a first semester
freshman
at Penn State) she's not confident in math because of that experience.

Due to the pressures of standarized testing students get more information
and
less time to work on basics. Make reading and writing fun and practice at
home. Have your kids write the grocery list and do the grocery shopping.
Have
them estimate what the total bill will be as they go through the store.
Have
them play imaginitive games not on the computer. Make sure they play
outside,
turn part of the yard into Mars or something and they can build vehicles
to
explore. Ask them to write down what they do "on Mars" for you to read
when
you get home from work. Write notes to your kids to convey information.
"
I'll be home at 6:00 and then we can go to the store".

Contray to the uninformed opinion of other posters teachers really do
study how
minds work. Make sure your kids DO when they are learning. Lecture
format has
a 5% retention rate whereas adding a simple write it down increases it to
30%.
The more interactive the learning the higher the retention. For kids who
have
a tough time spelling marching the words out to a tune really helps. Also
make
sure your kids drink enough water as brain research has shown that
dehydrated
brains don't absorb knowledge (most schools now allow the kids to carry
water
bottles if they are clear plastic).

Margy



Thanks.

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in
:


"Michael Houghton" wrote in message
...
snip
Well, if in sending my kids to public schools all these years (they're
all in or past college now) I'd seen even ONE that comprehended HOW
the
young minds grasps knowledge I'd say "most". That's not been me
experience.


I won't deny that there are a significant number of teachers whose
ability to teach is questionable, but many teachers actually give a
damn about their students, doing their best to *teach*. Oh, and "rote
learning" is not so nearly ubiquitous as you would claim.

"Giving a damn" is completely worthless if they don't know _HOW_ it
works.

Your tirade is so full of manure that it is laughable -- or would be
if you weren't expressing a range of opinions that are painfully
common.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.


yours,
Michael



Best,

Tom

Margy,

What kind of district do you teach in. I live in an urban environment where
the school district is notoriously disrespected (likely becuase they do
little other than trying to manipulate their test scores to show improvement
by teaching the tests, picking who does and doesn't take the test using
threats, lying about the actual results, and outright changing answers on
the kids' tests).


"Margy Natalie" wrote in message
...


Dude wrote:

Teachers I have talked too care less about the money and more about the
fact
that they have ZERO control in the classroom. The students have a right
to
do whatever they please wthout recourse. Only the best leaders are
capable
of controlling a classroom through force of personality. Enough of
those
people might be recruited with lots more money, but maybe not.

The quicker solution is to either bring back corporal punishment and
expulsions, or go with vouchers that will allow a free market to
separate
the children of idiots from the children of responsible parents.

I don't think corporal punishment is the answer. I'm lucky enough to work
in a
building where I can have control in my classroom (and I specialize in
emotionally disturbed students!!). We do need strict and enforced rules
in
schools. We also need teachers who respect their students as individuals
and
parents who expect their children to respect teachers as individuals.
(also
parents who expect children to respect parents!). I've seen way too many
children who are in control of their houses.

Margy



"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Judah" wrote in message
...
"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in
:


"Jordan" wrote in message
...

If we have to have celebrity endorsement, then our nation is too
brain
dead to endure and is finished.

That's what happens when teachers make minimum wage, and celebrities
make
$100,000 an episode...

Teachers hardly make minimun wage. Even if we paid them $100K, they
don't
know _how_ to teach (besides being beholden to the unions). Further,
even
those who LOVE to teach, still miss HOW the human mind learns and
grasps
information in the form of concepts. That's why most all of
"education" is
now BY ROTE.

"Dude" wrote in message
...
Margy,

I must challenge this statement:

"Contray to the uninformed opinion of other posters teachers really do
study
how
minds work."

I was with you all the way until I got to this one. Either your positive
attitude, or an unusually positive series of coincidences has shaded your
judgement on the interest in childrens' minds held by many teachers today.
I am not uninformed. A close personal friend of mine is a public school
teacher, and I attended several public and private schools. Unlike many
people, I have a good memory of what transpired.

Here's a question you might ask any teacher, particularly at the elementary
school level:

Differentiate the "Look-Say" and "Phonetic" methods of teaching reading. Why
is one method better than the other?

It's rather amazing (at least in my experience) how many CAN'T explain it
and how many current teachers really can't fathom why the look-say method is
an abject failure.