Texas Tragedy Info?

On Monday, June 18, 2012 10:54:30 AM UTC-7, cuflyer wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:37:03 AM UTC-4, Linwood wrote:
Anyone have any knowledge of the three fatality glider crash in Texas?
Glider type? Situation?

Linwood

Kid on his mother's lap - ? Affecting control - ?
This is really ugly.

1FL

It was indeed the freaking tail dolly!!!
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...gation/#5891-7

Ramy

On Monday, June 18, 2012 11:13:38 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 10:54:30 AM UTC-7, cuflyer wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:37:03 AM UTC-4, Linwood wrote:
Anyone have any knowledge of the three fatality glider crash in Texas?
Glider type? Situation?

Linwood

Kid on his mother's lap - ? Affecting control - ?
This is really ugly.

1FL

It was indeed the freaking tail dolly!!!
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...gation/#5891-7

Ramy

I meant to say frigging tail dolly!
Of course it is just a speculation, but quiet evident in these photos!
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...gation/#5891-7
Definitely not the first time a tail dolly is forgotten, but I never heard of it bringing down the glider!

Sigh!

Ramy

On Monday, June 18, 2012 2:13:38 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 10:54:30 AM UTC-7, cuflyer wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:37:03 AM UTC-4, Linwood wrote:
Anyone have any knowledge of the three fatality glider crash in Texas?
Glider type? Situation?

Linwood

Kid on his mother's lap - ? Affecting control - ?
This is really ugly.

1FL

It was indeed the freaking tail dolly!!!
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...gation/#5891-7

Ramy

Nope- If the tail dolly was on, glider is still flyable. Most likely speculation on may part-#1 rule broken here which is FLY THE AIRPLANE.
I have seen a few tail dolly incidents or the years, and in every case, the pilot had to be told that the tail dolly was still on.
Other bad rule broken- NO unrestrained people in the glider- ever.
Terribly sad
UH

On Monday, June 18, 2012 11:35:25 AM UTC-7, (unknown) wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 2:13:38 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 10:54:30 AM UTC-7, cuflyer wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:37:03 AM UTC-4, Linwood wrote:
Anyone have any knowledge of the three fatality glider crash in Texas?
Glider type? Situation?

Linwood

Kid on his mother's lap - ? Affecting control - ?
This is really ugly.

1FL

It was indeed the freaking tail dolly!!!
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...gation/#5891-7

Ramy

Nope- If the tail dolly was on, glider is still flyable. Most likely speculation on may part-#1 rule broken here which is FLY THE AIRPLANE.
I have seen a few tail dolly incidents or the years, and in every case, the pilot had to be told that the tail dolly was still on.
Other bad rule broken- NO unrestrained people in the glider- ever.
Terribly sad
UH

If it is not the cause, must be to main contributing factor. I just find it hard to believe that it is unrelated.
What a tragedy

Ramy

Nope- If the tail dolly was on, glider is still flyable. Most likely speculation on may part-#1 rule broken here which is FLY THE AIRPLANE.
I have seen a few tail dolly incidents or the years, and in every case, the pilot had to be told that the tail dolly was still on.
Other bad rule broken- NO unrestrained people in the glider- ever.
Terribly sad
UH

Photos do clearly show the tail dolly on. That can't help a cg, though
as Hank says unlikely to move it too far aft unless already at the
back limit. It does suggest things getting hurried in the preflight.

Photos also show both spoilers full open. That could happen in a crash
of course, but might also be indicative of things going wrong. There
was a spoler-open crash earlier this year where the pilots
interepreted the rudder waggle as a wing rock (NTSB). This is a very
dangerous combination. If you don't know the spoilers are open, you
won't know to use the much lower-nose pitch attitude that spoilers
require. You're at 200 feet, not aware your spoilers are open, and in
a pitch attitude that will lead quickly to loss of airspeed. I've been
having towplanes waggle rudders at BFR rides for a while, quite a few
of them release.

And I have to agree with Hank. They let you carry kids on airliners,
but this ain't an airliner -- there's no stick in seat 37E either.
Small children won't get that much out of a glider ride that can't
wait until they can sit alone. I don't let rides even bring video
cameras any more. They won't produce good footage, they'll just get
sick looking through the camera, and it can drop in uncomfortable
places.

John Cochrane

On Monday, June 18, 2012 1:55:21 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 11:35:25 AM UTC-7, (unknown) wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 2:13:38 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 10:54:30 AM UTC-7, cuflyer wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:37:03 AM UTC-4, Linwood wrote:
Anyone have any knowledge of the three fatality glider crash in Texas?
Glider type? Situation?

Linwood

Kid on his mother's lap - ? Affecting control - ?
This is really ugly.

1FL

It was indeed the freaking tail dolly!!!
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...gation/#5891-7

Ramy

Nope- If the tail dolly was on, glider is still flyable. Most likely speculation on may part-#1 rule broken here which is FLY THE AIRPLANE.
I have seen a few tail dolly incidents or the years, and in every case, the pilot had to be told that the tail dolly was still on.
Other bad rule broken- NO unrestrained people in the glider- ever.
Terribly sad
UH

If it is not the cause, must be to main contributing factor. I just find it hard to believe that it is unrelated.
What a tragedy

Ramy

Lark manual with scratched in hard to read W&B numbers for that particular ship:
http://www.clubplaneadoresbari.com.a...ark_Manual.pdf

Seems to me that a tail dolly heavy enough to put it out of the aft limit would have to be very heavy.

If it is not the cause, must be to main contributing factor. I just find it hard to believe that it is unrelated.
What a tragedy

Ramy

From the images, it appears the tail dolly may have been attached so the handle could be used as a lift point for one of the straps.

FW

On Jun 18, 12:35*pm, wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 2:13:38 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 10:54:30 AM UTC-7, cuflyer wrote:
On Monday, June 18, 2012 9:37:03 AM UTC-4, Linwood wrote:
Anyone have any knowledge of the three fatality glider crash in Texas?
Glider type? Situation?

Linwood

Kid on his mother's lap - ? *Affecting control - ?
This is really ugly.

1FL

It was indeed the freaking tail dolly!!!
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...ash-under-inve...

Ramy

Nope- If the tail dolly was on, glider is still flyable. Most likely speculation on may part-#1 rule broken here which is FLY THE AIRPLANE.
I have seen a few tail dolly incidents or the years, and in every case, the pilot had to be told that the tail dolly was still on.
Other bad rule broken- NO unrestrained people in the glider- ever.
Terribly sad
UH

I remember my 3 year old would reach out and pull any yellow "toy" on
a string.

Truly tragic. Condolences to the family and friends. Fred

On Monday, June 18, 2012 2:07:03 PM UTC-5, Frank Whiteley wrote:
If it is not the cause, must be to main contributing factor. I just find it hard to believe that it is unrelated.
What a tragedy

Ramy

From the images, it appears the tail dolly may have been attached so the handle could be used as a lift point for one of the straps.

FW

the CBS link that i posted first does show the tail dolly on before it was being lifted out of the field. but you are right it could've been put there post-crash to help with moving.