A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

The Apology



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #151  
Old October 29th 20, 01:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Chip Bearden[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 90
Default The Apology

On Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 12:10:04 AM UTC-4, Gregg Ballou wrote:

I wonder if using '...employees' instead of '...whores' would have been less offensive


Is that a trick question? I think someone told me you work in HR but that's probably not true. In fact, you must not work in the corporate world at all, Gregg. Or if you do (well, did), you might be thinking about other career paths right now.


With the exception of about three glider pilots in the entire world, men are no longer sexist.


Which three did you have in mind? There are a bunch of candidates from this thread alone. Maybe we can vote on it. Elections can be a lot of fun! And you seem to enjoy campaigning.


And everyone here defending those actions are not trying to convince me that the complaint and apology were acceptable they are trying to convince themselves.


You're right, Gregg. We all want to be like you. [pause]

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!! Sorry, I couldn't help myself. You can't feed me a line like that.

Keep those jokes coming, guys! Only 300+ more views to take over 7th place on the 2020 RAS Most-Viewed-Discussion leaderboard. If every bitter, miserable, angry, vindictive, conspiratorial, childless corporate whore on this newsgroup looks at this thread once or twice, we could be there sometime today. Or maybe those three sexist guys could each view it 100+ times. Nah, that's not really sporting. We should earn that honor the right away--by making sure EVERYONE in soaring reads this stuff...all over the world!

Chip Bearden
JB
Ads
  #152  
Old October 29th 20, 03:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Michael Westbrook[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default The Apology

Gregg,

I would assume that the group of women you are addressing includes the specific women who wrote into Soaring? While you may not agree with their view, they exist and many of us know these specific women and respect them. So to spout out general pejoratives towards these members of our community is unacceptable as many of us have tried to point out from many different angles.

I'm sure that the soaring world is better in some ways from support Bob and yourself have provided through instruction, tows and donations. That however does not give you a free pass to call women "childless corporate whores" or tell them they'd "be more attractive if they kept their mouth shut".

I'm positive the gainfully employed women I know, that again can be single or married and with or without kids are happy that they can make that decision for themselves. They're happy that they can make the choice to fly or not. They're happy that they can be married to a great person. Or single, rather than possibly be at home raising the kids for you and maybe allowed to fly on weekends.

Soaring is a small world and we haven't met but one day we might or there's a good chance we already have some soaring friends in common. I think one problem is the ability to type out whatever pops in your head on a keyboard and think its ok. I'm guessing if you met these women in real life you wouldn't say it to their face. I'm guessing it wouldn't be ok for someone to say these things about your wife or daughter if she asked for mutual respect - even if you didn't understand her view. Lets try to have some common decency and respect towards our female colleagues whether we are standing right next to them or conversing online.

Mike

  #153  
Old October 29th 20, 04:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
glidergeek
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 181
Default The Apology

This whole thread is dismal at the least, pathetic not at the most. You all have fallen victim of modern day self condemnation.
  #154  
Old October 29th 20, 04:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Kimmine and Mitch Hudson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default The Apology

Looks like it’s time for another review. This time, however let’s look at the good in the world first, followed by the obvious minority in order to have a more comprehensive overview. I would like to show that, like anything else in society, the good will most always outweigh the bad, though will not always be the least noisy. Hang in there, ladies!

I’m sorry I don’t have time to track down who all the good folks are, and I realize many of you repeatedly posted many more positive things than what I am recapping, I just want to show the sheer numbers here. Also to the good folks, I apologize for not giving you proper credit. However, believe me, most everyone appreciates it.

-Mitch Hudson, Erie, Colorado

THE GOOD


“The complaint, which sadly required the explaination for this old guy see the harm in what seemed harmless, seems a valid, constructive suggestion for improvement. We definitely want more women pilots and being tone deaf in this area is not helping this end. Your proposed question seems counterproductive.”

, Oct 20, 2020, 4:38:02 PM*

“Whoa - I think some people need to take a deep breath and do some research. Some of the women who wrote in have been contributing to SSA in a big way for years. Not to mention that the current Chair of the SSA is a woman.

I believe the proper response is to understand why someone was offended and determine how to prevent it in the future. We don't get to determine is someone should be offended. Our job is to respect their feelings. And, if the Editor and the Chair of the SSF think they needed to apologize, I'll take their lead.”

-MNLou, Oct 20, 2020, 5:49:32 PM*


“Agreed that this old stuff happened in the mainstream in the 40's and best water under the bridge today, even if bad by today's standards. Wanting to stir up bad feelings because of it not productive.

The complaint seems about the same stuff unfortunately happening today.”
, Oct 20, 2020, 6:54:06 PM*

“The most telling aspect of this thread is that almost all the respondents are men, and almost all the men seem completely blank ("without empathy") regarding how this ad could feel demeaning to a woman. This cluelessness is, I think, the main point for many women.”

-danlj, Oct 20, 2020, 10:43:57 PM

“The nearly universal response by the men on this thread is a perfect illustration of how far we have to go. Has political correctness gone too far? In some cases, yes. But those of us in the majority (and in soaring, men by far outnumber women) need to put a little effort into trying to understand why some of those in the minority might be offended by ads like this, not criticize and further insult them.”

-Chip Bearden, Boonton Township, NJ, Oct 21, 2020, 7:06:44 PM


“Let me see if I can understand how this ad could have been interpreted by the women who complained. The background poster looks like something from the 50's, the glorious time for men, when women were second class citizens. The questions being asked by the women "What? No engine? But how?" imply that she's just another dumb blonde, who cannot possibly understand the technical intricacies of motorless flight. Contrast that with the male pilot, whose head gear alone tells us all we need to know about his piloting skills and expertise in flight mechanics. The caption "Beginning brilliant new love story - Swept Off Her Feet" could imply that there's no point in trying to explain all these intricacies to a women because that would distract her from her main purpose which she can only find in the bedroom and in the kitchen.
With this in mind, I fully agree with Chip and I totally understand and support Linda.”
, Oct 23, 2020, 2:35:00 PM*

“I'd like to nominate Gregg Ballou for the RAS Phyllis Shapley award.
Only stay at home mothers are honest women and the rest are childless corporate whores. Wow! what group do women running glider ports fall into?"
, Oct 23, 2020, 8:19:37 PM

“Ya know, I think every time I have brought up the soaring community I have had nothing but good things to say, after reading a disgusting thread like this, I wish I never clicked the link to this post.

Grow up boys, and remember who brought home first place at worlds this year..”

-Collin Shea, Ft. Worth, TX, Oct 23, 2020, 9:11:12 PM

“I'm sorry that women expressing their displeasure with an advertisement and then being taken seriously is such a threat to your way of life that you would continue to refer to them as "nazis".

Now, have you ever considered that the WSPA exists because of the fact that there are people in this world who find their way of life threatened over something as simple as women being taken seriously when they voice a complaint? So seriously in fact that they will invent incendiary terms relating them Nazi's and Fascists?

Probably not. Because you are used to being taken seriously when you complain about things.”

-Hugh Grandstaff, Huntsville, Alabama, Oct 24, 2020, 3:51:31 PM

“What a really sad state of affairs that most of the posters in this thread show absolutely no evidence of empathy (i.e. the capacity to see things through other's eyes) wrt the complainers. Very disappointing to me. The ad was bad enough in that it pours salt on open wounds, the "mansplaining" of the posters is off the wall.”

-John Godfrey, Chapel Hill, North Carolina, Oct 24, 2020, 6:48:34 PM

“This picture is the earliest picture I can find of the gang of girls, 1939 Wiesbaden. Hard to imagine just a generation later, but the women in the picture had to fight for the vote, equal pay, and other important human rights. However I always wondered what they were thinking when they quietly endured face to face discrimination. One day I asked the woman on the far left and she said: “living well is my best revenge.”

-xcnick, Oct 25, 2020, 4:40:46 AM

“The ad could best described as tone deaf. That was obviously not the intent, but it was the result. Male chauvinism is often subtle, and men are not particularly skilled in recognizing its presence. Pointing out chauvinistic behavior is the role of women, and that is what happened here. I say bravo! for them and shame on their detractors.”

, Oct 26, 2020, 12:24:34 AM

“Most of the women that I have met in soaring were involved with WSPA. They've all come away with positive experiences, whether they were pre-solo or well into cross-country, contests and badges. My own daughter just turned 13 and is taking lessons. We signed her up as a member of WSPA a couple months ago and I'll be making a donation in honor of this thread to help support the next generation of "childless corporate whores" as you call them. There's a good chance a young woman that started out at the local gliderport, fostered by a WSPA seminar or scholarship could be that Captain on your next airline flight, defending our country over the skies of a foreign country or possibly the next person on the Moon or the first person on Mars. That's pretty f*#@ing awesome.”

-Mike Westbrook, Mansfield, Texas, Oct 26, 2020, 9:12:53 AM

“I too am married to a female glider pilot. Leah is also a "Childless Corporate Whore" and WSPA member (former board member). She benefitted immensely in her early flying career by attending a seminar at Air Saililng. I didn't ask her how she felt about the ad. Her feelings about the ad do not change the fact that many people who wrote in to Soaring did not appreciate it. I thought SSA & SSF did a very good job of addressing the problem. I hope that the letter writers feel the same way.

I hope that WSPA is selling "Childless Corporate Whore" T-shirts soon. That's gold.

RAS holds a special place in my heart as it was my primary outlet for soaring reporting and information during my early days as a glider pilot. Many long time contributors probably are happy that I've moved on LOL. Every now and then there's a nasty thread like this that makes me sad. Remember folks.. If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all. It's not that hard. Be Nice.”

-Tony Condon, Wichita, Kansas, Oct 26, 2020, 2:17:33 PM

"Pointing out the obvious shortcomings of a not-so-subtle diminishing of women's place in our sport is not an assault of freedom or a liberal conspiracy to "cancel" men, a "PC takeover" by overly sensitive snowflakes, or anything of the sort. It's simply pointing out that these sorts of obvious to some but (apparently) oblivious to others slights get noticed and cumulatively diminish the enjoyment of those women who do participate in soaring. These representations also erode the propensity to join of 50% of the population who might consider our sport. That's hardly a group we should be writing off - their participation rate is tragically small as it stands.”

-Andy Blackburn, San Carlos, California, Oct 26, 2020, 5:10:07 PM

“The original ad was an unfortunate mis-step. I am proud of how swiftly and respectfully the SSA and SSF handled the situation.
Some of the posts in this thread however are absolutely inappropriate. The dis-service done to our community as a whole by those posts are far more damaging than the original error to which good faith efforts are being made to rectify, learn, and move forward.
I am extremely glad there are people here willing to call out these action and those that made them. I hope this will stand as a record and push people towards the reality that all of us in some aspect or another would do well to open our minds and be willing to listen to one another. And that we will not stand for this kind of behavior in our community.

If you have a problem with the SSA and SSF's decision to fix a true mistake and include a group of our soaring family that deserves every ounce of respect as anyone else, I would beg you to take some time away from the keyboard to really reflect on what you are advocating for here. There is no plot or organized attack going on.. there is nothing to lose and only positive change to gain by the apology that sparked this thread. None of us want to admit that we may have improper visions of what's going on. But if culture is going to advance in a positive way then individuals must also change.. and that is quite often the hardest part.”

-Freddie, Ft. Worth, Texas, Oct 27, 2020, 4:22:33 PM

“I concur with Chip and Andy - well said”

-Mike Brooks, Houston, Texas, Oct 27, 2020, 5:54:10 PM

“I just spent more than an hour reading through this thread and I just want to add a couple of observations.

I can understand why the ad was offensive to some women. It's really a no brainer if you put yourself in their shoes.”

, Oct 28, 2020, 2:01:13 PM

“Then an unexpected thing happened. Out of a turd sprouted a beautiful and vibrant flower of moral enlightenment. I'm surprised and encouraged by the massing of intelligent, articulate, and sustained opposition to the chauvinistic sentiments that initially propelled this thread. Yes - call a spade a spade. Hold bigots accountable for their bigotry and don't let them gaslight reality when they get pushback. If this could happen more consistently on RAS, it would be a better place to visit, and the dinosaurs will eventually go extinct.”

-biff the dotard, Oct 28, 2020, 10:31:34 PM

THE BAD (AND UGLY)


"Mitch objected to the term Feminatzi, when that term was explained both have not commented. I have no problem defending this hill, as stated before, I have no apologies."
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, 27 October, 2020, 6:37

"Yet she was the Feminazi that came to the office most every day with her very revealing tits exposing in a n extremely revealing top, I could not help just taking a look at those puppies from time to time. In your eyes I guess that made me a sexist.
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, October 27th, 2020, 2:43PM

"Mark, you make a great point , the apology should be from these Feminazi organizers whose mission was only to create conflict. This Femitifa approach should not be tolerated, solution, defund the WSPA as part or association with the SSA. "
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, Oct 20, 2020, 12:03:12

"The complaints and the sniveling apologies are appalling. And the woman in the ad would be more attractive if she had kept her mouth shut."
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 21, 2020, 12:49:44

"Poor women, women have lost a lot since the 1950's if you think being a childless corporate whore is better than being a stay at home mother you need to talk to some honest women.
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 23, 2020, 4:24:47

“A few, or one, women should not be allowed to speak for ALL women. A quarter-page ad was addressed with a FULL PAGE apology, totally out of proportion with the "crime." I, for one, object to being called a "pig," but am not expecting an apology.”

-Tom Seim, Richland, Washington, Oct 28, 2020, 6:26:00 PM

“So feel free to apologize for yourself, but not for me.”

-Dan Marotta, Moriarty, New Mexico, Oct 20, 2020, 6:09:17 PM*
  #155  
Old October 29th 20, 08:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 87
Default The Apology

On Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 11:39:29 AM UTC-4, Kimmine and Mitch Hudson wrote:
Looks like it’s time for another review. This time, however let’s look at the good in the world first, followed by the obvious minority in order to have a more comprehensive overview. I would like to show that, like anything else in society, the good will most always outweigh the bad, though will not always be the least noisy. Hang in there, ladies!

I’m sorry I don’t have time to track down who all the good folks are, and I realize many of you repeatedly posted many more positive things than what I am recapping, I just want to show the sheer numbers here. Also to the good folks, I apologize for not giving you proper credit. However, believe me, most everyone appreciates it.

-Mitch Hudson, Erie, Colorado

THE GOOD


“The complaint, which sadly required the explaination for this old guy see the harm in what seemed harmless, seems a valid, constructive suggestion for improvement. We definitely want more women pilots and being tone deaf in this area is not helping this end. Your proposed question seems counterproductive.”

, Oct 20, 2020, 4:38:02 PM

“Whoa - I think some people need to take a deep breath and do some research. Some of the women who wrote in have been contributing to SSA in a big way for years. Not to mention that the current Chair of the SSA is a woman.

I believe the proper response is to understand why someone was offended and determine how to prevent it in the future. We don't get to determine is someone should be offended. Our job is to respect their feelings. And, if the Editor and the Chair of the SSF think they needed to apologize, I'll take their lead.”

-MNLou, Oct 20, 2020, 5:49:32 PM


“Agreed that this old stuff happened in the mainstream in the 40's and best water under the bridge today, even if bad by today's standards. Wanting to stir up bad feelings because of it not productive.

The complaint seems about the same stuff unfortunately happening today.”
, Oct 20, 2020, 6:54:06 PM

“The most telling aspect of this thread is that almost all the respondents are men, and almost all the men seem completely blank ("without empathy") regarding how this ad could feel demeaning to a woman. This cluelessness is, I think, the main point for many women.”

-danlj, Oct 20, 2020, 10:43:57 PM

“The nearly universal response by the men on this thread is a perfect illustration of how far we have to go. Has political correctness gone too far? In some cases, yes. But those of us in the majority (and in soaring, men by far outnumber women) need to put a little effort into trying to understand why some of those in the minority might be offended by ads like this, not criticize and further insult them.”

-Chip Bearden, Boonton Township, NJ, Oct 21, 2020, 7:06:44 PM


“Let me see if I can understand how this ad could have been interpreted by the women who complained. The background poster looks like something from the 50's, the glorious time for men, when women were second class citizens. The questions being asked by the women "What? No engine? But how?" imply that she's just another dumb blonde, who cannot possibly understand the technical intricacies of motorless flight. Contrast that with the male pilot, whose head gear alone tells us all we need to know about his piloting skills and expertise in flight mechanics. The caption "Beginning brilliant new love story - Swept Off Her Feet" could imply that there's no point in trying to explain all these intricacies to a women because that would distract her from her main purpose which she can only find in the bedroom and in the kitchen.
With this in mind, I fully agree with Chip and I totally understand and support Linda.”
, Oct 23, 2020, 2:35:00 PM

“I'd like to nominate Gregg Ballou for the RAS Phyllis Shapley award.
Only stay at home mothers are honest women and the rest are childless corporate whores. Wow! what group do women running glider ports fall into?"
, Oct 23, 2020, 8:19:37 PM

“Ya know, I think every time I have brought up the soaring community I have had nothing but good things to say, after reading a disgusting thread like this, I wish I never clicked the link to this post.

Grow up boys, and remember who brought home first place at worlds this year.”

-Collin Shea, Ft. Worth, TX, Oct 23, 2020, 9:11:12 PM

“I'm sorry that women expressing their displeasure with an advertisement and then being taken seriously is such a threat to your way of life that you would continue to refer to them as "nazis".

Now, have you ever considered that the WSPA exists because of the fact that there are people in this world who find their way of life threatened over something as simple as women being taken seriously when they voice a complaint? So seriously in fact that they will invent incendiary terms relating them Nazi's and Fascists?

Probably not. Because you are used to being taken seriously when you complain about things.”

-Hugh Grandstaff, Huntsville, Alabama, Oct 24, 2020, 3:51:31 PM

“What a really sad state of affairs that most of the posters in this thread show absolutely no evidence of empathy (i.e. the capacity to see things through other's eyes) wrt the complainers. Very disappointing to me.. The ad was bad enough in that it pours salt on open wounds, the "mansplaining" of the posters is off the wall.”

-John Godfrey, Chapel Hill, North Carolina, Oct 24, 2020, 6:48:34 PM

“This picture is the earliest picture I can find of the gang of girls, 1939 Wiesbaden. Hard to imagine just a generation later, but the women in the picture had to fight for the vote, equal pay, and other important human rights. However I always wondered what they were thinking when they quietly endured face to face discrimination. One day I asked the woman on the far left and she said: “living well is my best revenge.”

-xcnick, Oct 25, 2020, 4:40:46 AM

“The ad could best described as tone deaf. That was obviously not the intent, but it was the result. Male chauvinism is often subtle, and men are not particularly skilled in recognizing its presence. Pointing out chauvinistic behavior is the role of women, and that is what happened here. I say bravo! for them and shame on their detractors.”

, Oct 26, 2020, 12:24:34 AM

“Most of the women that I have met in soaring were involved with WSPA. They've all come away with positive experiences, whether they were pre-solo or well into cross-country, contests and badges. My own daughter just turned 13 and is taking lessons. We signed her up as a member of WSPA a couple months ago and I'll be making a donation in honor of this thread to help support the next generation of "childless corporate whores" as you call them. There's a good chance a young woman that started out at the local gliderport, fostered by a WSPA seminar or scholarship could be that Captain on your next airline flight, defending our country over the skies of a foreign country or possibly the next person on the Moon or the first person on Mars. That's pretty f*#@ing awesome.”

-Mike Westbrook, Mansfield, Texas, Oct 26, 2020, 9:12:53 AM

“I too am married to a female glider pilot. Leah is also a "Childless Corporate Whore" and WSPA member (former board member). She benefitted immensely in her early flying career by attending a seminar at Air Saililng. I didn't ask her how she felt about the ad. Her feelings about the ad do not change the fact that many people who wrote in to Soaring did not appreciate it. I thought SSA & SSF did a very good job of addressing the problem.. I hope that the letter writers feel the same way.

I hope that WSPA is selling "Childless Corporate Whore" T-shirts soon. That's gold.

RAS holds a special place in my heart as it was my primary outlet for soaring reporting and information during my early days as a glider pilot. Many long time contributors probably are happy that I've moved on LOL. Every now and then there's a nasty thread like this that makes me sad. Remember folks. If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all. It's not that hard. Be Nice.”

-Tony Condon, Wichita, Kansas, Oct 26, 2020, 2:17:33 PM

"Pointing out the obvious shortcomings of a not-so-subtle diminishing of women's place in our sport is not an assault of freedom or a liberal conspiracy to "cancel" men, a "PC takeover" by overly sensitive snowflakes, or anything of the sort. It's simply pointing out that these sorts of obvious to some but (apparently) oblivious to others slights get noticed and cumulatively diminish the enjoyment of those women who do participate in soaring. These representations also erode the propensity to join of 50% of the population who might consider our sport. That's hardly a group we should be writing off - their participation rate is tragically small as it stands.”

-Andy Blackburn, San Carlos, California, Oct 26, 2020, 5:10:07 PM

“The original ad was an unfortunate mis-step. I am proud of how swiftly and respectfully the SSA and SSF handled the situation.
Some of the posts in this thread however are absolutely inappropriate. The dis-service done to our community as a whole by those posts are far more damaging than the original error to which good faith efforts are being made to rectify, learn, and move forward.
I am extremely glad there are people here willing to call out these action and those that made them. I hope this will stand as a record and push people towards the reality that all of us in some aspect or another would do well to open our minds and be willing to listen to one another. And that we will not stand for this kind of behavior in our community.

If you have a problem with the SSA and SSF's decision to fix a true mistake and include a group of our soaring family that deserves every ounce of respect as anyone else, I would beg you to take some time away from the keyboard to really reflect on what you are advocating for here. There is no plot or organized attack going on.. there is nothing to lose and only positive change to gain by the apology that sparked this thread. None of us want to admit that we may have improper visions of what's going on. But if culture is going to advance in a positive way then individuals must also change.. and that is quite often the hardest part.”

-Freddie, Ft. Worth, Texas, Oct 27, 2020, 4:22:33 PM

“I concur with Chip and Andy - well said”

-Mike Brooks, Houston, Texas, Oct 27, 2020, 5:54:10 PM

“I just spent more than an hour reading through this thread and I just want to add a couple of observations.

I can understand why the ad was offensive to some women. It's really a no brainer if you put yourself in their shoes.”

, Oct 28, 2020, 2:01:13 PM

“Then an unexpected thing happened. Out of a turd sprouted a beautiful and vibrant flower of moral enlightenment. I'm surprised and encouraged by the massing of intelligent, articulate, and sustained opposition to the chauvinistic sentiments that initially propelled this thread. Yes - call a spade a spade. Hold bigots accountable for their bigotry and don't let them gaslight reality when they get pushback. If this could happen more consistently on RAS, it would be a better place to visit, and the dinosaurs will eventually go extinct.”

-biff the dotard, Oct 28, 2020, 10:31:34 PM

THE BAD (AND UGLY)
"Mitch objected to the term Feminatzi, when that term was explained both have not commented. I have no problem defending this hill, as stated before, I have no apologies."
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, 27 October, 2020, 6:37

"Yet she was the Feminazi that came to the office most every day with her very revealing tits exposing in a n extremely revealing top, I could not help just taking a look at those puppies from time to time. In your eyes I guess that made me a sexist.
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, October 27th, 2020, 2:43PM

"Mark, you make a great point , the apology should be from these Feminazi organizers whose mission was only to create conflict. This Femitifa approach should not be tolerated, solution, defund the WSPA as part or association with the SSA. "
-Bob Youngblood, Vero Beach, Florida, Oct 20, 2020, 12:03:12

"The complaints and the sniveling apologies are appalling. And the woman in the ad would be more attractive if she had kept her mouth shut."
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 21, 2020, 12:49:44

"Poor women, women have lost a lot since the 1950's if you think being a childless corporate whore is better than being a stay at home mother you need to talk to some honest women.
-Greg Ballou, Elmwood, Massachusetts, Oct 23, 2020, 4:24:47
“A few, or one, women should not be allowed to speak for ALL women. A quarter-page ad was addressed with a FULL PAGE apology, totally out of proportion with the "crime." I, for one, object to being called a "pig," but am not expecting an apology.”

-Tom Seim, Richland, Washington, Oct 28, 2020, 6:26:00 PM

“So feel free to apologize for yourself, but not for me.”

-Dan Marotta, Moriarty, New Mexico, Oct 20, 2020, 6:09:17 PM

K&M, just look what you did, "I'll Be Back". with the next chapter of the Apology, Chapter 2, "The Cult Invasion".
  #156  
Old October 30th 20, 01:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Chip Bearden[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 90
Default The Apology

* * * * * *
WE DID IT! "The Apology" is now the 7th-most-viewed RAS Posting of 2020!
* * * * * *

How awesome is that?!?!?! I'd like to thank the SSA, RAS readers, my family..... Wait, this wasn't my thread. I should let Bob Youngblood make the speech. Maybe he and Gregg Ballou and Tom Seim can come up to accept their 7th-place trophy.

What, you say 7th place is the 6th loser? Sorry you feel that way but there were over 1,100 discussions this year so this is no small feat.

Just a suggestion, Bob: ditch "The Apology, Chapter 2" idea. Sequels are never as good as the original.

What a remarkable achievement, especially since almost NOTHING in the thread actually related to soaring. I know it was difficult at times. Some of you were up late working on your postings. You even involved your families to get objective research ("honey, I was thinking we could get away to a nice romantic bed & breakfast this weekend, maybe do some antiquing and wine tasting, you don't think this ad is sexist, do you?").

It was tough. But if it were easy, anyone could have done it. Be proud! Without you, "The Apology" could have been just another cooky, offensive diatribe gathering dust in ignominy at the bottom of the list with Daryl Kabatoof's "If I Were Mayor of Saskatoon" and "Mary, Monkey, Sun, Tree and Penis Whoreshippers".

WHOA!!! Two threads that both mention "whores". Is that eerie, or what?

We can't all be winners, of course. There were some casualties as "The Apology" shot through the list like Doug Jacobs through a weekend club contest. Among them: "Gliding risk...." (a personal fave, though it slipped to 10th). And "How About Story Time", Hank Nixon's marvelous interlude last spring that helped navigate us away from the divisiveness in the early days of the pandemic--sort of a virtual round of kumbaya.

Sorry, Hank; unlike "The Apology", your posting--now 11th--actually had something to do with soaring so it seems kinda unfair. But the fans have spoken.
  #157  
Old October 30th 20, 03:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Gregg Ballou[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default The Apology

On Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 1:04:44 AM UTC-4, wrote:
If you read my post I never called any specific person or female pilots 'childless corporate whores' I defined a group of women that way just as I defined another group of women as 'mothers.' I wonder if using '...employees' instead of '...whores' would have been less offensive, I doubt it. The comparison between mothers and childless corporate handmaidens is telling If you look at decades of research you will find that women's happiness levels have never been lower, women are losing badly(by happiness standards) in modern times. With the exception of about three glider pilots in the entire world, men are no longer sexist. And no I don't believe women are more free now, as I've pointed out several times women have been flying since the beginning of flying, so what have they gained? The ability to start internet virtue signaling outrage spirals among men. That isn't making women happier. What is the difference between the apology illustration and a current year picture of a male pilot answering a soaring related question from a female? The woman in the apology illustration could have learned to fly, same as a woman that walks onto a gliderport tomorrow. The women that complained were wrong and the Soaring magazine apology was wrong. And everyone here defending those actions are not trying to convince me that the complaint and apology were acceptable they are trying to convince themselves.

You also said "And the woman in the ad would be more attractive if she had kept her mouth shut. "

The biology of attraction is not changed by the political correctness of the moment. You being an emotional tampon for women pilots does not make you more attractive to women.
  #158  
Old October 30th 20, 06:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Doug B[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default The Apology

The biology of attraction is not changed by the political correctness of the moment. You being an emotional tampon for women pilots does not make you more attractive to women.

I don't think anyone in this thread has changed anyone else's mind, not for the lack of trying. Regardless, the overall trend is towards more progressive views, one funeral at a time.

Doug
  #159  
Old October 30th 20, 10:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 87
Default The Apology

On Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 8:23:51 PM UTC-4, Chip Bearden wrote:
* * * * * *
WE DID IT! "The Apology" is now the 7th-most-viewed RAS Posting of 2020!
* * * * * *

How awesome is that?!?!?! I'd like to thank the SSA, RAS readers, my family.... Wait, this wasn't my thread. I should let Bob Youngblood make the speech. Maybe he and Gregg Ballou and Tom Seim can come up to accept their 7th-place trophy.

What, you say 7th place is the 6th loser? Sorry you feel that way but there were over 1,100 discussions this year so this is no small feat.

Just a suggestion, Bob: ditch "The Apology, Chapter 2" idea. Sequels are never as good as the original.

What a remarkable achievement, especially since almost NOTHING in the thread actually related to soaring. I know it was difficult at times. Some of you were up late working on your postings. You even involved your families to get objective research ("honey, I was thinking we could get away to a nice romantic bed & breakfast this weekend, maybe do some antiquing and wine tasting, you don't think this ad is sexist, do you?").

It was tough. But if it were easy, anyone could have done it. Be proud! Without you, "The Apology" could have been just another cooky, offensive diatribe gathering dust in ignominy at the bottom of the list with Daryl Kabatoof's "If I Were Mayor of Saskatoon" and "Mary, Monkey, Sun, Tree and Penis Whoreshippers".

WHOA!!! Two threads that both mention "whores". Is that eerie, or what?

We can't all be winners, of course. There were some casualties as "The Apology" shot through the list like Doug Jacobs through a weekend club contest. Among them: "Gliding risk...." (a personal fave, though it slipped to 10th). And "How About Story Time", Hank Nixon's marvelous interlude last spring that helped navigate us away from the divisiveness in the early days of the pandemic--sort of a virtual round of kumbaya.

Sorry, Hank; unlike "The Apology", your posting--now 11th--actually had something to do with soaring so it seems kinda unfair. But the fans have spoken.

RANKED BY # OF VIEWS
1. What have we learned from all this? (Gold)
2. Best Overall Motorglider available today? (Silver)
3. My September 2017 visit to GP Gliders (Bronze)
4. Which 18m FES sailplane to buy? (Honorable Mention)
5. Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20
6. Js3 jet catastrophic failure.
7. The Apology
8. Paraglider pilot missing in eastern Nevada
9. 27 crash at Ely?
10. Gliding risk....
11. How About Story Time

NEWS FLASH: An "under the radar" award as "The Apology" nearly reaches the medal stand in the "number of posts" category for audience participation!!! This wasn't just a few guys talking back and forth for a week trolling for votes, although it sometimes seemed like that. Take a look:

RANKED BY # OF POSTS
1. What have we learned from all this? (Gold)
2. Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20 (Silver)
3. Best Overall Motorglider available today? (Bronze)
4. The Apology (Honorable Mention)

And on the subject of what did we learn from all of this? As far as I can tell, not a f*#@ing thing.

Chip Bearden
JB

Chip, get help quick, call your psychiatrist, get some Doxepin and combine with Sineguan it might help with your heat oppressed delusions. Now I am working on chapter three," The Posse Wore Lipstick And Drove A Prius". I have a list of characters for each chapter, chapter two, "The Cult Invasion", Kammine plays Sandra Fluke.
  #160  
Old November 2nd 20, 03:09 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,257
Default The Apology

On Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 9:22:36 PM UTC-7, Chip Bearden wrote:
On Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 8:26:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
2G wrote:

That this ad was objectionable to all women is, simply, not true.


I was just saying how Bob and I finally agreed on something. And now I agree with you, too. I mean, is that crazy or not? You're right. The ad wasn't objectionable to every woman. Just like what you said wasn't offensive to every man.


I showed it to my wife and she thought it was cute, and others here have noted a similar reaction.


Tell the truth, Tom. What's your answer to "honey, does this dress make my butt look big?" Yeah, I thought so. This is what focus groups are for.


A quarter-page ad was addressed with a FULL PAGE apology, totally out of proportion with the "crime."


I dunno, Tom. From my time on the SSA Board, I recall that the magazine and Web site are always actively looking for content. That ad/apology got more readers and comments than almost anything else published in print or online this year. You guys have any other ideas?


I, for one, object to being called a "pig," but am not expecting an apology.


Yeah, that's probably not gonna happen. But don't worry. The actual quote was "few men are pigs". She might have had someone else in mind. I mean, it's possible.


This is fun, Tom! Keep those jokes coming. By midnight Pacific Time, this discussion should have reached 8th on the 2020 Most-Viewed-RAS-Discussions hit parade. Top-Five status is probably out of reach but if you troll this a little more, we have a shot at 7th, which would knock out "Paraglider pilot missing in eastern Nevada" by...2G.

Oops.

Chip Bearden
JB


How can you say WHO Cindy was referring to? It was clear to me that she was referring to all males who disagreed with her as "pigs."

And, then, you insulted my wife by implying that she was being dishonest. I think you owe her an apology.

Tom
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Apology Bob Gardner Piloting 2 January 4th 05 06:51 PM
Apology Curtis Soaring 0 October 20th 04 03:44 PM
Apology Curtis Rotorcraft 0 October 20th 04 03:43 PM
Apology Curtis Restoration 0 October 20th 04 03:42 PM
Apology Curtis Products 0 October 20th 04 03:30 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2020 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.