IDAHO FATALITY

The rudder waggle does not mean "release now." How terribly sad

John Cochrane

If radios were required by that club or FBO and a com-check had been
performed before takeoff, the tragic sequence of events would have
been stopped with a simple, "Close your spoilers" call from the tow
pilot. All the clubs & FBO's in region 11 have got the word, but it
took 4 preventable fatalities to do it. When is the SSA going to get
the word?
JJ Sinclair

On Aug 21, 6:07*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
The rudder waggle does not mean "release now." How terribly sad

John Cochrane

If radios were required by that club or FBO and a com-check had been
performed before takeoff, the tragic sequence of events would have
been stopped with a simple, "Close your spoilers" call from the tow
pilot. All the clubs & FBO's in region 11 have got the word, but it
took 4 preventable fatalities to do it. When is the SSA going to get
the word?
JJ Sinclair

I for one know and understand the SSA signals on tow. However one must
be a realist and accept the fact of human nature as such, that not
everyone else does or maybe remembers. Therefore it would be wise to
continue using the signals on tow only as an alternate means of
communication to radio. 6PK

Originally Posted by PK

On Aug 21, 6:07*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
The rudder waggle does not mean "release now." How terribly sad

John Cochrane

If radios were required by that club or FBO and a com-check had been
performed before takeoff, the tragic sequence of events would have
been stopped with a simple, "Close your spoilers" call from the tow
pilot. All the clubs & FBO's in region 11 have got the word, but it
took 4 preventable fatalities to do it. When is the SSA going to get
the word?
JJ Sinclair

I for one know and understand the SSA signals on tow. However one must
be a realist and accept the fact of human nature as such, that not
everyone else does or maybe remembers. Therefore it would be wise to
continue using the signals on tow only as an alternate means of
communication to radio. 6PK

I would like point out that a blind reliance on radios alone is not the answer. I have seen a very near miss between a Ventus on a final glide/beatup and a launching G109. The Ventus called his intentions and because he didn't get a reply proceeded with his finish.

Radio calls are not infallable just the same as visual signals and are also subject to interference from other sources as well as mis-interpretation

Colin

Sure looks like you guys have "hijacked" this thread and are, for some
reason, back on the "glider signals and radio thread again"

It was all pretty much said in the earlier, long thread.............

As for this incident....I already see the blame being directed away
from the PIC.....some hint at the NTSB doing poor investigations...as
if that has anything to to with this......somebody else hinted that
the accident was "unavoidable"....Come on guys....

I figured you all would come up with some reasons why this guys should
have been in radio contact with somebody...that would have prevented
the accident..

Or I expected you to come up with something like..."If only he had one
of those electronic angle of attack indicators, and an audible stall
warning (horn) and a visual stall warning (light) and some sort of
automatic yaw controller......"


Hmmmmm.....

Cookie

So much reliance on radios!

I'm continually told that the radio in the tug I fly is "unreadable",
"garbled", etc. I have no control over it. The operation has no money to
fix the problem. Should they shut down, instead? What I *do* have control
over is looking over the glider that I'm going to tow and refusing to take
up slack if I'm not happy with the condition of the glider.

Some glider pilots (myself included, depending on the glider) begin the
takeoff roll with the spoliers open. Likewise, everyone hauling water tells
me so (the receiver works just fine). They don't need to tell me - I know
the second I advance power if they're light or heavy. I still appreciate
the call. Likewise, I always inform the tow pilot that I have water on
board, though I'm sure he can feel it.

I'm still hearing excuses for poor pilot technique and lack of knowledge of
signals.


"JJ Sinclair" wrote in message
...

The rudder waggle does not mean "release now." How terribly sad

John Cochrane

If radios were required by that club or FBO and a com-check had been
performed before takeoff, the tragic sequence of events would have
been stopped with a simple, "Close your spoilers" call from the tow
pilot. All the clubs & FBO's in region 11 have got the word, but it
took 4 preventable fatalities to do it. When is the SSA going to get
the word?
JJ Sinclair

I'm continually told that the radio in the tug I fly is "unreadable",
"garbled", etc. *I have no control over it. *The operation has no money to

Don't know what to tell you Dan, is the radio garbled with engine off?
Could be a place to start.

I have aften thought that my friend Hal would have willingly bought a
radio for every tow plane in the country, had he only known the tragic
events that awaited him and his tow pilot that November day, 2 years
ago.
JJ

In article "Dan Marotta" writes:
So much reliance on radios!

I'm continually told that the radio in the tug I fly is "unreadable",
"garbled", etc. I have no control over it.

Many things could cause it. Wind or engine noise overcoming the headset
noise cancelling microphone, SWR causing RF on the microphone and radio
wiring, a broken radio, perhaps from internal condensation if it has been
around for a while.


The operation has no money to
fix the problem. Should they shut down, instead?

I would suggest that they find money to fix the radio. It is cheap insurance
against another accident report because one of the rare visitors doesn't understand
what the glider operation is doing, and cannot understand your radio.



I'm still hearing excuses for poor pilot technique and lack of knowledge of
signals.

Is that like excuses for bad radios? (You are not alone. A good fraction of
the gliders where I fly have unreadable radios.)

Alan

Originally Posted by Bob

I heard there was a stall spin on base to final fatality at the recent
Idhao flying get-together. Anyone got any specifics? Tough summer
for gliding!

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