Didn't know that....

On Jan 21, 1:15*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:


Nope, not in this case. if they didn;t fly the airplane, the holes in
the bottom of the airplane would have been the least of their problems,
since they would have made significantly larger holes.

Bertie

....at last, the magic words. "Fly the airplane". Good on ya, Bertie.

ah wrote in news:4973fef3$0$57681
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 21:49:45 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:


Actually they can in most arplanes. The 'bus has one that will do the
whole lot in one go, though. Some old Brit airplanes had the same
thing. you know,in case "Gerry snuck up on us over la Manch after a
jolly good thrashing of Dresden"

Thank you for your answer.
There is only one thing: The ditch switch on flight 1549 was not
activated as reported by the NTSB interview.


You don' tknow that.


The crew didn't have time


You don' tknow that either.

to flick the switch. So, Captain C.B. Sullenberger III is after all
just a human being. The plane floated anyway. For a while at least.

What about the in-flight tea reserves?

Let's not get into the nightmare scenario


Bertie

cavedweller wrote in news:6a07dabb-6fb7-4cdb-9057-
:

On Jan 21, 1:15*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:


Nope, not in this case. if they didn;t fly the airplane, the holes in
the bottom of the airplane would have been the least of their problems,
since they would have made significantly larger holes.

Bertie

...at last, the magic words. "Fly the airplane". Good on ya, Bertie.



ell, it's obvious, even if you're only flying a hang glider...

Isn't it?

Bertie

On Jan 21, 12:18*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote :



On Jan 20, 3:51*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:28:27 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Where on the checklist is the instruction to flip this switch?

The manual states:

At 2000 ft

CABIN PRESS MODE SEL.............................Check AUTO
ENG 1 & 2 BLEED, APU BLEED.......................OFF
P/B DITCHING.....................................ON
P/A............................................."TOU CHDOWN IN ONE
MINUTE" Aim for an impact with an 11° body angle and minimum ROD.

Poster

However if you're also working an inflight engine unstart which takes
precedence? *Clarification: two engine unstart w/inflight emergency.
Quite a bit different from a situation that begins at cruise altitude
or with only *one* emergency rather than a sequence of events. *As a
PAX I would rather know that the crew are concentrating on landing the
aircraft (ditching) as gently as possible.

That silly switch won't do a thing to save the buoyancy if the
fuselage is fractured by a rough ditching...a point one everyone seems
to miss.

Exactly.

I would hazard (grin) a guess that the final review will show them to
have maintained situational awareness with the concomitant priority
management.

I'd agree, it;'s hard to argue wiht success. Like many accidents of this
sort, these gusy will have rewritten the book.

Bertie

With all my arguments against worrying about the dip, er, 'ditch'
switch I wonder of what benefit it would truly be in any condition
other dead level calm? Ditching at see would (I would think) most
often occur in conditions that would tear up the aircraft sufficiently
to make 'the Switch' totally useless.

In this particular case it appears, from reading an article early on,
that one or more pax may have partially opened a rear door and allowed
water ingress and this, more than anything, contributed to the tail
down sinking.

It all comes down to basic necessities. I've had two high speed
parachute malfunctions and my first reaction was "what do I do to get
a chute open right f'ing now?" I didn't worry until after that
occurred as to wear I would land or what I would have for dinner. You
really have to experience something to realize the difference a 'real'
emergency will make in your focus. Failure to maintain that focus
results in the 'oh ****' moments.

On Jan 21, 12:09*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Flydive wrote :

wrote:

Low priority compared to flying the plane, deadstick, in a congested
urban environment.

Or would you rather he spend time looking for a button on the panel?

Well it takes 3 seconds to flip the switch, you should know where is
located.

one pilot is flying the aircraft, the other one is assisting and going
through the checklist.

Yep, and the checklists can lead you into a workd of trouble. There wasn't
time. In this case, a relight checklist was really all they should have
been interested in.

Bertie

I'll bet they had it open to 'foie gras' - goose liver ala Turbine.

wrote in
:


With all my arguments against worrying about the dip, er, 'ditch'
switch I wonder of what benefit it would truly be in any condition
other dead level calm? Ditching at see would (I would think) most
often occur in conditions that would tear up the aircraft sufficiently
to make 'the Switch' totally useless.

Well, experience has certainly proven this to be the case!

In this particular case it appears, from reading an article early on,
that one or more pax may have partially opened a rear door and allowed
water ingress and this, more than anything, contributed to the tail
down sinking.

Yeh, makes sense.

It all comes down to basic necessities. I've had two high speed
parachute malfunctions and my first reaction was "what do I do to get
a chute open right f'ing now?" I didn't worry until after that
occurred as to wear I would land or what I would have for dinner. You
really have to experience something to realize the difference a 'real'
emergency will make in your focus. Failure to maintain that focus
results in the 'oh ****' moments.


Well, exactly, Even in the sim when a mad situation is thrown up where
things are forgotten, such as checklist items, but the performance as whole
was exemplerary, the crew get kudos, not a kicking. It encourages the kind
of thinking that makes situations like this come out as they did.


Bertie

wrote in
:

On Jan 21, 12:09*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Flydive wrote :

wrote:

Low priority compared to flying the plane, deadstick, in a
congested urban environment.

Or would you rather he spend time looking for a button on the
panel?

Well it takes 3 seconds to flip the switch, you should know where
is located.

one pilot is flying the aircraft, the other one is assisting and
going through the checklist.

Yep, and the checklists can lead you into a workd of trouble. There
wasn'
t
time. In this case, a relight checklist was really all they should
have been interested in.

Bertie

I'll bet they had it open to 'foie gras' - goose liver ala Turbine.


hehe
Smells like hell when it goes down the core. They prolly didn;'t get to
smell it since it sounds like the engines stopped producing air for the
packs almost immediatly



Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
cavedweller wrote in
news:6a07dabb-6fb7-4cdb-9057-
:

On Jan 21, 1:15 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:


Nope, not in this case. if they didn;t fly the airplane, the holes in
the bottom of the airplane would have been the least of their problems,
since they would have made significantly larger holes.

Bertie

...at last, the magic words. "Fly the airplane". Good on ya, Bertie.



ell, it's obvious, even if you're only flying a hang glider...

Isn't it?

Bertie

the only thing obvious here is you're a dumb ass wanna be.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Flydive wrote in :

wrote:
On Jan 20, 3:51 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:28:27 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
Where on the checklist is the instruction to flip this switch?
The manual states:

At 2000 ft

CABIN PRESS MODE SEL.............................Check AUTO
ENG 1 & 2 BLEED, APU BLEED.......................OFF
P/B DITCHING.....................................ON
P/A............................................."TOU CHDOWN IN ONE
MINUTE" Aim for an impact with an 11° body angle and minimum ROD.

Poster

However if you're also working an inflight engine unstart which takes
precedence? Clarification: two engine unstart w/inflight emergency.
Quite a bit different from a situation that begins at cruise altitude
or with only *one* emergency rather than a sequence of events. As a
PAX I would rather know that the crew are concentrating on landing
the aircraft (ditching) as gently as possible.

That silly switch won't do a thing to save the buoyancy if the
fuselage is fractured by a rough ditching...a point one everyone
seems to miss.

I would hazard (grin) a guess that the final review will show them to
have maintained situational awareness with the concomitant priority
management.


Again, there are 2 pilots in the cockpit, only one is steering the
aircraft. If the captain was flying the aircraft, what was the copilot
doing in those 7-8 minutes if he was not going through the emergency
checklist? What the use of a perfect water landing if then the
aircraft quickly fill with water because the ditching checklist has
not been done?


There were dozens of things he would be doing. One, determining waht the
problem was.
Then, dealing with the immediate problem, an engine failure. Immediate
relight attempt. Probably the APU was fired up to assist in the relight.
as they would have been too slow for a windmill start.
Then a quick call to ATC and probalby a couple of nav selections for the
captain to look for a runway they could plunk it on.Then back to the
relight drill. We're taught to keep trying that to the bitter end, BTW.
They take a minute or so so he wouldn't have had time for more than one
or two, and that would have been after the APU had fired up, say at
abotu 1200'. A couple of calls to the cabin would have been tossed in
their somewhere as well.
The act of picking up the book and finding the ditching checklist would
have taken a good 20-30 seconds...Time they simply did not have.
And this scenario is not done in the sim, so there would have been no
trigger for it. BTW, I'm beign generous with the actions they may or may
not have accomplished in the time they had. But all of them would come
ahead of doing a "nice to do " ditching checklist.



Bertie

save the bed time story, you're starting to rattle more than Dudley.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
wrote in
:


With all my arguments against worrying about the dip, er, 'ditch'
switch I wonder of what benefit it would truly be in any condition
other dead level calm? Ditching at see would (I would think) most
often occur in conditions that would tear up the aircraft sufficiently
to make 'the Switch' totally useless.

Well, experience has certainly proven this to be the case!

In this particular case it appears, from reading an article early on,
that one or more pax may have partially opened a rear door and allowed
water ingress and this, more than anything, contributed to the tail
down sinking.

Yeh, makes sense.

It all comes down to basic necessities. I've had two high speed
parachute malfunctions and my first reaction was "what do I do to get
a chute open right f'ing now?" I didn't worry until after that
occurred as to wear I would land or what I would have for dinner. You
really have to experience something to realize the difference a 'real'
emergency will make in your focus. Failure to maintain that focus
results in the 'oh ****' moments.


Well, exactly, Even in the sim when a mad situation is thrown up where
things are forgotten, such as checklist items, but the performance as
whole
was exemplerary, the crew get kudos, not a kicking. It encourages the kind
of thinking that makes situations like this come out as they did.


Bertie


Are you drunk again?