Didn't know that....

"Flydive" wrote in message
...

You are arguing with the functional equivalent of a Japanese radio.

He doesn't even possess the ability to realize he is wrong.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
"Maxwell" #$$9#@%%%.^^^ wrote in :


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Flydive wrote in :

wrote:
On Jan 20, 3:51 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:28:27 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
Where on the checklist is the instruction to flip this switch?
The manual states:

At 2000 ft

CABIN PRESS MODE SEL.............................Check AUTO
ENG 1 & 2 BLEED, APU BLEED.......................OFF
P/B DITCHING.....................................ON
P/A............................................."TOU CHDOWN IN ONE
MINUTE" Aim for an impact with an 11° body angle and minimum ROD.

Poster

However if you're also working an inflight engine unstart which takes
precedence? Clarification: two engine unstart w/inflight emergency.
Quite a bit different from a situation that begins at cruise altitude
or with only *one* emergency rather than a sequence of events. As a
PAX I would rather know that the crew are concentrating on landing
the aircraft (ditching) as gently as possible.

That silly switch won't do a thing to save the buoyancy if the
fuselage is fractured by a rough ditching...a point one everyone
seems to miss.

I would hazard (grin) a guess that the final review will show them to
have maintained situational awareness with the concomitant priority
management.


Again, there are 2 pilots in the cockpit, only one is steering the
aircraft. If the captain was flying the aircraft, what was the copilot
doing in those 7-8 minutes if he was not going through the emergency
checklist? What the use of a perfect water landing if then the
aircraft quickly fill with water because the ditching checklist has
not been done?


There were dozens of things he would be doing. One, determining waht the
problem was.
Then, dealing with the immediate problem, an engine failure. Immediate
relight attempt. Probably the APU was fired up to assist in the relight.
as they would have been too slow for a windmill start.
Then a quick call to ATC and probalby a couple of nav selections for the
captain to look for a runway they could plunk it on.Then back to the
relight drill. We're taught to keep trying that to the bitter end, BTW.
They take a minute or so so he wouldn't have had time for more than one
or two, and that would have been after the APU had fired up, say at
abotu 1200'. A couple of calls to the cabin would have been tossed in
their somewhere as well.
The act of picking up the book and finding the ditching checklist would
have taken a good 20-30 seconds...Time they simply did not have.
And this scenario is not done in the sim, so there would have been no
trigger for it. BTW, I'm beign generous with the actions they may or may
not have accomplished in the time they had. But all of them would come
ahead of doing a "nice to do " ditching checklist.



Bertie

save the bed time story, you're starting to rattle more than Dudley.


Yeh, right wannabe boi.

Bertie


Really, you're beginning to talk more **** than a Jap radio.

wrote in message
...
On Jan 21, 2:29 pm, "Maxwell" #$$9#@%%%.^^^ wrote:
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in
.com...



Flydive wrote :

wrote:
On Jan 20, 3:51 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:28:27 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
Where on the checklist is the instruction to flip this switch?
The manual states:

At 2000 ft

CABIN PRESS MODE SEL.............................Check AUTO
ENG 1 & 2 BLEED, APU BLEED.......................OFF
P/B DITCHING.....................................ON
P/A............................................."TOU CHDOWN IN ONE
MINUTE" Aim for an impact with an 11 body angle and minimum ROD.

Poster

However if you're also working an inflight engine unstart which takes
precedence? Clarification: two engine unstart w/inflight emergency.
Quite a bit different from a situation that begins at cruise altitude
or with only *one* emergency rather than a sequence of events. As a
PAX I would rather know that the crew are concentrating on landing
the aircraft (ditching) as gently as possible.

That silly switch won't do a thing to save the buoyancy if the
fuselage is fractured by a rough ditching...a point one everyone
seems to miss.

I would hazard (grin) a guess that the final review will show them to
have maintained situational awareness with the concomitant priority
management.

Again, there are 2 pilots in the cockpit, only one is steering the
aircraft. If the captain was flying the aircraft, what was the copilot
doing in those 7-8 minutes if he was not going through the emergency
checklist? What the use of a perfect water landing if then the
aircraft quickly fill with water because the ditching checklist has
not been done?

There were dozens of things he would be doing. One, determining waht the
problem was.
Then, dealing with the immediate problem, an engine failure. Immediate
relight attempt. Probably the APU was fired up to assist in the relight.
as they would have been too slow for a windmill start.
Then a quick call to ATC and probalby a couple of nav selections for the
captain to look for a runway they could plunk it on.Then back to the
relight drill. We're taught to keep trying that to the bitter end, BTW.
They take a minute or so so he wouldn't have had time for more than one
or two, and that would have been after the APU had fired up, say at
abotu 1200'. A couple of calls to the cabin would have been tossed in
their somewhere as well.
The act of picking up the book and finding the ditching checklist would
have taken a good 20-30 seconds...Time they simply did not have.
And this scenario is not done in the sim, so there would have been no
trigger for it. BTW, I'm beign generous with the actions they may or may
not have accomplished in the time they had. But all of them would come
ahead of doing a "nice to do " ditching checklist.

Bertie

save the bed time story, you're starting to rattle more than Dudley.

Speaking of rattle how's your syphilitic cough doing these days?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, so, did your wife ever get better?

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
wrote in
:

On Jan 21, 2:29 pm, "Maxwell" #$$9#@%%%.^^^ wrote:
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in
messagenews:gl7pc2$93i
...



Flydive wrote
:

wrote:
On Jan 20, 3:51 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:28:27 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
Where on the checklist is the instruction to flip this switch?
The manual states:

At 2000 ft

CABIN PRESS MODE SEL.............................Check AUTO
ENG 1 & 2 BLEED, APU BLEED.......................OFF
P/B DITCHING.....................................ON
P/A............................................."TOU CHDOWN IN
ONE MINUTE" Aim for an impact with an 11 body angle and minimum
ROD.

Poster

However if you're also working an inflight engine unstart which
takes precedence? Clarification: two engine unstart w/inflight
emergency
.
Quite a bit different from a situation that begins at cruise
altitude or with only *one* emergency rather than a sequence of
events. As
a
PAX I would rather know that the crew are concentrating on
landing the aircraft (ditching) as gently as possible.

That silly switch won't do a thing to save the buoyancy if the
fuselage is fractured by a rough ditching...a point one everyone
seems to miss.

I would hazard (grin) a guess that the final review will show
them to have maintained situational awareness with the
concomitant priority management.

Again, there are 2 pilots in the cockpit, only one is steering the
aircraft. If the captain was flying the aircraft, what was the
copilot doing in those 7-8 minutes if he was not going through the
emergency checklist? What the use of a perfect water landing if
then the aircraft quickly fill with water because the ditching
checklist has not been done?

There were dozens of things he would be doing. One, determining
waht th
e
problem was.
Then, dealing with the immediate problem, an engine failure.
Immediate relight attempt. Probably the APU was fired up to assist
in the relight
.
as they would have been too slow for a windmill start.
Then a quick call to ATC and probalby a couple of nav selections
for th
e
captain to look for a runway they could plunk it on.Then back to
the relight drill. We're taught to keep trying that to the bitter
end, BTW. They take a minute or so so he wouldn't have had time for
more than one or two, and that would have been after the APU had
fired up, say at abotu 1200'. A couple of calls to the cabin would
have been tossed i
n
their somewhere as well.
The act of picking up the book and finding the ditching checklist
would have taken a good 20-30 seconds...Time they simply did not
have. And this scenario is not done in the sim, so there would have
been no trigger for it. BTW, I'm beign generous with the actions
they may or ma
y
not have accomplished in the time they had. But all of them would
come ahead of doing a "nice to do " ditching checklist.

Bertie

save the bed time story, you're starting to rattle more than Dudley.

Speaking of rattle how's your syphilitic cough doing these days?


Ewww.


Bertie

Bertie the echo puppet.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Flydive wrote in :

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:


There were dozens of things he would be doing. One, determining waht
the problem was.
Then, dealing with the immediate problem, an engine failure.
Immediate relight attempt. Probably the APU was fired up to assist in
the relight. as they would have been too slow for a windmill start.
Then a quick call to ATC and probalby a couple of nav selections for
the captain to look for a runway they could plunk it on.Then back to
the relight drill. We're taught to keep trying that to the bitter
end, BTW. They take a minute or so so he wouldn't have had time for
more than one or two, and that would have been after the APU had
fired up, say at abotu 1200'. A couple of calls to the cabin would
have been tossed in their somewhere as well.
The act of picking up the book and finding the ditching checklist
would have taken a good 20-30 seconds...Time they simply did not
have. And this scenario is not done in the sim, so there would have
been no trigger for it. BTW, I'm beign generous with the actions they
may or may not have accomplished in the time they had. But all of
them would come ahead of doing a "nice to do " ditching checklist.



Bertie


The problem was multiple bird strikes, with most probably
catastrophic engine failure, I don't think you are going to try a
relight in that situation.
Do not know who did the ATC call, but that can be handled by the
flying pilot.
There was no runway to look for, once they decided that TEB was too
far, and it seems that the decision to ditch was taken quite quickly,
so no really nav selections.
Once they decided to ditch because they figured that the engine would
not be restarted, then no more relight attempt.
If as you say they were going through the relight procedure, they
would already had the book in their hands, no need to pick it up, just
had to find the right procedure.
I do not know about the Airbus, but in a lot of aircraft ditching is
considered an emergency, once you decided to ditch that is the
emergency procedure you are following.

Again, maybe the Airbus is different, but for example on my aircraft
the ditch switch does more than "sealing" fuselage, it does:
-depressurizes the cabin (so you can open the doors)
-Shuts down the packs (so no risk of pressurization
-closes the outflow valves (so no water can get in.

Nope, it just closes the holes in the belly.


Check list also calls for pulling the APU and engines fire handles,
you probably don't want to ditch with APU running (or engine you are
still trying to relight)


Well, maybe you should go and drive your airplane into the hudson and
show em how it's done.




Bertie




Maybe you should learn to fly something other than your desk.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Flydive wrote in :

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:


Again, maybe the Airbus is different, but for example on my aircraft
the ditch switch does more than "sealing" fuselage, it does:
-depressurizes the cabin (so you can open the doors)
-Shuts down the packs (so no risk of pressurization
-closes the outflow valves (so no water can get in.

Nope, it just closes the holes in the belly.


As I said probably the Airbus is different, on other aircraft the
switch does a bit more.


Check list also calls for pulling the APU and engines fire handles,
you probably don't want to ditch with APU running (or engine you are
still trying to relight)


Well, maybe you should go and drive your airplane into the hudson and
show em how it's done.




Bertie



Never said I would have done a better job, and personally I prefer to
complete the flight to the destination airport rather than go into the
water, we were discussing about the ditch switch and if to flip it or
not.


No, you're not. You're second guessing the crew.



If the emergency check list calls for it is probably a good idea to do
it, then if you prefer the creative way, well is up to you.

I agree they did a great job, at the end everybody got out alive. That
doesn't mean that we cannot talk about what could have been
differently.

You for example would have been trying to restart your engines after a
probable catastrophic failure till the end.



Yep.


Bertie


From the poster child for second guessing others. Did you think you held the
copyrights?

"Rich Ahrens" wrote in message
. net...
on 1/21/09 2:40 PM Flydive said the following:
The problem was multiple bird strikes, with most probably catastrophic
engine failure, I don't think you are going to try a relight in that
situation.

Have you been following along at all? As early as last Saturday the NTSB
was reporting that that is exactly what they were doing, based on
interviews with the flight crew backed up by the cockpit recorder.

From Saturday's NYT:

“My aircraft,” he announced to his first officer, using the standard
phrasing and protocol drilled into airline crews.

“Your aircraft,” Mr. Skiles responded.

With little thrust, and with the plane’s airspeed falling sharply, Captain
Sullenberger lowered the nose to keep his plane from falling out of the
sky. And he set his co-pilot to work at moving through a three-page
checklist of procedures for restarting both the engines.

Hey Bich, long time. Still shadowing your hero ButtLipp I see.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Rich Ahrens wrote in news:4977f644$0$92352
:

on 1/21/09 2:40 PM Flydive said the following:
The problem was multiple bird strikes, with most probably catastrophic
engine failure, I don't think you are going to try a relight in that
situation.

Have you been following along at all? As early as last Saturday the NTSB
was reporting that that is exactly what they were doing, based on
interviews with the flight crew backed up by the cockpit recorder.

From Saturday's NYT:

“My aircraft,” he announced to his first officer, using the standard
phrasing and protocol drilled into airline crews.

“Your aircraft,” Mr. Skiles responded.

With little thrust, and with the plane’s airspeed falling sharply,
Captain Sullenberger lowered the nose to keep his plane from falling out
of the sky. And he set his co-pilot to work at moving through a
three-page checklist of procedures for restarting both the engines.


Well, WTF else woul you do? You're face with a probable catastrophic
ditching or maybe getting enough thrust to nurse an airplane to a
runway....


Bertie

No, WTF, how the hell would you know?

On Jan 22, 10:02*pm, "Maxwell" #$$9#@%%%.^^^ wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jan 21, 2:29 pm, "Maxwell" #$$9#@%%%.^^^ wrote:



"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in
.com...

Flydive wrote :

wrote:
On Jan 20, 3:51 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:28:27 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
Where on the checklist is the instruction to flip this switch?
The manual states:

At 2000 ft

CABIN PRESS MODE SEL.............................Check AUTO
ENG 1 & 2 BLEED, APU BLEED.......................OFF
P/B DITCHING.....................................ON
P/A............................................."TOU CHDOWN IN ONE
MINUTE" Aim for an impact with an 11 body angle and minimum ROD.

Poster

However if you're also working an inflight engine unstart which takes
precedence? Clarification: two engine unstart w/inflight emergency.
Quite a bit different from a situation that begins at cruise altitude
or with only *one* emergency rather than a sequence of events. As a
PAX I would rather know that the crew are concentrating on landing
the aircraft (ditching) as gently as possible.

That silly switch won't do a thing to save the buoyancy if the
fuselage is fractured by a rough ditching...a point one everyone
seems to miss.

I would hazard (grin) a guess that the final review will show them to
have maintained situational awareness with the concomitant priority
management.

Again, there are 2 pilots in the cockpit, only one is steering the
aircraft. If the captain was flying the aircraft, what was the copilot
doing in those 7-8 minutes if he was not going through the emergency
checklist? What the use of a perfect water landing if then the
aircraft quickly fill with water because the ditching checklist has
not been done?

There were dozens of things he would be doing. One, determining waht the
problem was.
Then, dealing with the immediate problem, an engine failure. Immediate
relight attempt. Probably the APU was fired up to assist in the relight.
as they would have been too slow for a windmill start.
Then a quick call to ATC and probalby a couple of nav selections for the
captain to look for a runway they could plunk it on.Then back to the
relight drill. We're taught to keep trying that to the bitter end, BTW.
They take a minute or so so he wouldn't have had time for more than one
or two, and that would have been after the APU had fired up, say at
abotu 1200'. A couple of calls to the cabin would have been tossed in
their somewhere as well.
The act of picking up the book and finding the ditching checklist would
have taken a good 20-30 seconds...Time they simply did not have.
And this scenario is not done in the sim, so there would have been no
trigger for it. BTW, I'm beign generous with the actions they may or may
not have accomplished in the time they had. But all of them would come
ahead of doing a "nice to do " ditching checklist.

Bertie

save the bed time story, you're starting to rattle more than Dudley.

Speaking of rattle how's your syphilitic cough doing these days?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, so, did your wife ever get better?

* JANUARY 23, 2009, 3:29 A.M. ET

First Embryonic Stem-Cell Trial Gets Approval From the FDA

Mx'y, see? It may not be too late for you to grow a brain.

on 1/22/09 10:06 PM Maxwell said the following:
"Rich Ahrens" wrote in message
. net...
on 1/21/09 2:40 PM Flydive said the following:
The problem was multiple bird strikes, with most probably catastrophic
engine failure, I don't think you are going to try a relight in that
situation.
Have you been following along at all? As early as last Saturday the NTSB
was reporting that that is exactly what they were doing, based on
interviews with the flight crew backed up by the cockpit recorder.

From Saturday's NYT:

“My aircraft,” he announced to his first officer, using the standard
phrasing and protocol drilled into airline crews.

“Your aircraft,” Mr. Skiles responded.

With little thrust, and with the plane’s airspeed falling sharply, Captain
Sullenberger lowered the nose to keep his plane from falling out of the
sky. And he set his co-pilot to work at moving through a three-page
checklist of procedures for restarting both the engines.

Hey Bich, long time. Still shadowing your hero ButtLipp I see.

Nope. Laughing my ass at how he's wiping the floor with you and how
you're too thick to realize it.