Student Pilot Distance from Gliderport Restrictions

Our club is interested in what rules or restrictions other clubs or
operations may place on post solo student pilots related to the
distance they may fly from the airport when solo.

For example, club rules forbid flying out of gliding range of the
airport, students are required to stay in a specified area defined by
roads, rivers and railroads,studends are allowed to use their
judgement, etc?

The intent is not a debate of the FAA requirements for XC flights more
than 25 miles from the airport.

Also, we would be interested in the requirements for licensed pilots
to fly "cross country" or "out of final glide range from the airport"
in club or rental gliders.

JE

My club is in Canada, so FAA rules don't quite apply (I know, the CARs
aren't that much different) We have a large field with many
runways, surrounded by farm land; the nearest town is 10 km away.

We restrict solo students to being within gliding range and they must
remain upwind of the field until they enter the landing circuit.
These restrictions remain in effect until they move beyond the 2-33
and 1-26 and take the Bronze Badge course. We don't allow cross-
country flights until the Bronze is completed, along with the Silver
duration flight, at which point we generally send our budding xc
pilots to a nice municipal airport 62 km away (with airport hopping
along the way).

XC in club ships requires that the pilot be licenced and checked out
for xc flights on type -- rig/de-rig, trailering, etc. We don't like
having our twin Grobs out on xc because they're such a pain to
retrieve from a field, plus we constantly use them for intro rides and
intermediate training. It will be interesting to see what happens
with our "new" DG500 that's intended for advanced training and xc
training.

Drat! I wanna go flying!!

On Feb 4, 6:35*pm, jsbrake wrote:
My club is in Canada, so FAA rules don't quite apply (I know, the CARs
aren't that much different) *We have a large field with many
runways, surrounded by farm land; the nearest town is 10 km away.

We restrict solo students to being within gliding range and they must
remain upwind of the field until they enter the landing circuit.
These restrictions remain in effect until they move beyond the 2-33
and 1-26 and take the Bronze Badge course. *

While we're "Canadian Air Reg'ing", in Canada: “solo flight time”
means, with respect to the flight time necessary to acquire a permit,
licence or rating, "the flight time during which the holder is the
sole occupant of an aircraft while under the direction and supervision
of the holder of an instructor rating". The usual interpretation is
that in order to direct and supervise, the glider must remain within
visual range of the airport. A solo student who has an incident/
accident outside that range may (should?) bring pointed questions to
the instructor... Once licenced, Bronze and Silver legs provide
challenges to expand their flight envelope - if they get into problems
away from the field, they have the skills/judgement to overcome the
challenge, which a solo student may not.
As for judgement - "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience
comes from bad judgement."

*The usual interpretation is
that in order to direct and supervise, the glider must remain within
visual range of the airport.

Personally, I don't interpret it to mean that at all. The student
must be authorized by an instructor before the flight to undertake
certain teaching points while solo. One such teaching point could be
navigation and the student could be authorized to do their 50 km
flight if the instructor deems the student capable. In fact, in the
power private license standard, a solo cross-country flight is
required. This flight takes the solo student to two different
airports and covers somewhere around 250 miles.

Back to the original question:

At my club, students do not typically fly solo cross-country and like
all other club pilots, who are not checked out for cross-country, they
must remain within glide distance to return to the traffic pattern at
the appropriate height and location. Any abbreviated circuit as a
result of too low an arrival becomes a de-briefing and teaching
point. We do not have any specific landmarks or area they are
required to stay within, but on certain days (windy, poor visibility)
and with some students the instructor who is supervising the flight
may provide specific instructions as to where the student is expected
to be. In al other cases, the students are expected to use their own
judgement.

A student who lands out is not sanctioned, it is again a teaching
point. The decision to land was likely the best decision they made in
the flight. The question becomes what decisions put them in the
position where they had to make the final land out decision. That is
what need correcting.

Cross-country in club ships requires the pilot to be signed out in
each specific type they want to fly cross-country. The checkout
involves, first having completed the requirements of the bronze
badge. Subsequent requirements include three consecutive spot/
precision/short landings on type. Full briefing on controlled
airspace and radio procedures (followed by written test - new this
year). Other requirements include:
• Minimum of five flights on type.
• Demonstrate ability to rig and derig glider.
• Ability to organize a retrieve crew.

As part of the Bronze badge training, all students are required to
navigate to a neighbouring airport about 10 miles away, plan a circuit
and land there. This also requires an understanding of glide
calculations to determine what departure height is required to arrive
at the other airport around 1500 AGL. The flight back, also focuses
on navigation and glide calculations to arrive home at an appropriate
altitude.

On Feb 5, 11:33*am, RN wrote:
Our club is interested in what rules or restrictions other clubs or
operations may place on post solo student pilots related to the
distance they may fly from the airport when solo.

Fundamentally, students (and more advanced pilots taking
friends for rides) are supposed to stay within gliding range of the
airfield OR other known good landing places they have been authorized
to use.

Due to our situation most of the usable soaring is a few km away from
the field and there aren't any great landing places on the nearby flat
land -- school sports fields are the best option: possible but not
desirable and you'll get your photo in the newspaper.

http://hoult.org/bruce/ParaparaumuTerrain.jpg

The closest ridges 4 and 6 km from the field (at their northern
points) are often soarable and returning is no problem. The peak south
of Maungakotukutuku is 2400 ft high and about 9 km from the field and
that's a convenient and common place to take a ~3000 ft tow to.

One of the most reliable places to get decent flights (and a lot of
training is done there) is the ridge running north from Waikanae, at a
distance of between 8 and 12 km from the field. There are two ok
paddocks across Highway 1 from the southern end of the ridge, one
running in each direction so one is usually usable.

A better option is an east/west topdressing strip (marked on that map)
at the northern end of the hills, 16.5 km from the airfield. We
operated from there for a day last season to familiarize students with
it and hopefully will again soon. There is a much bigger north/south
grass strip (home to half a dozen Cessnas etc) another 3 km to the
north.

It's common to allow pilots to use those two strips as a base-away-
from-base ~20 km from the launch point for flights on which they are
not supposed to be "cross country". It's always better to find some
lift and get home, but if you can't then it's much better to use those
known and aero-towable strips rather than risk landing in the houses 5
km from home.

On Feb 4, 9:24*pm, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Feb 5, 11:33*am, RN wrote:

Our club is interested in what rules or restrictions other clubs or
operations may place on post solo student pilots related to the
distance they may fly from the airport when solo.

Fundamentally, students (and more advanced pilots taking
friends for rides) are supposed to stay within gliding range of the
airfield OR other known good landing places they have been authorized
to use.

Due to our situation most of the usable soaring is a few km away from
the field and there aren't any great landing places on the nearby flat
land -- school sports fields are the best option: possible but not
desirable and you'll get your photo in the newspaper.

http://hoult.org/bruce/ParaparaumuTerrain.jpg

The closest ridges 4 and 6 km from the field (at their northern
points) are often soarable and returning is no problem. The peak south
of Maungakotukutuku is 2400 ft high and about 9 km from the field and
that's a convenient and common place to take a ~3000 ft tow to.

One of the most reliable places to get decent flights (and a lot of
training is done there) is the ridge running north from Waikanae, at a
distance of between 8 and 12 km from the field. There are two ok
paddocks across Highway 1 from the southern end of the ridge, one
running in each direction so one is usually usable.

A better option is an east/west topdressing strip (marked on that map)
at the northern end of the hills, 16.5 km from the airfield. We
operated from there for a day last season to familiarize students with
it and hopefully will again soon. *There is a much bigger north/south
grass strip (home to half a dozen Cessnas etc) another 3 km to the
north.

It's common to allow pilots to use those two strips as a base-away-
from-base ~20 km from the launch point for flights on which they are
not supposed to be "cross country". It's always better to find some
lift and get home, but if you can't then it's much better to use those
known and aero-towable strips rather than risk landing in the houses 5
km from home.

"supervised solo".....I meet with my solo students before each flight
they take....we discuss all intentions...

It's a student by student, flight by flight kind of deal.

I stress to my students that being a solo pilot is merely one step in
the process of becoming a private pilot, which is one step in the
process of becoming a good pilot. The goal of solo flying is to
improve flying skills, from "solo standard" to "private standard" and
then take the practical test. The goal is not normally to go for
badges, records, OLC points etc, at this stage of the traing process.
I do typically define the student's "crib"...that is the distance
limts....using landmarks, like the ridge, major highways etc., roughly
a 5 mile radius.

I have made exceptions to the "no cross country rule for student
pilots". I have had a couple of hang glider pilots who had some
extensive x-country flying in hang gliders....I knew they would not
stay in the boundaries anyway, and were OK to fly some short cross
countries, after they were fairly far along on the solo flying.

The other exception I sometimes make is for young solo pilots.....I
student pilot at 14 years old, has two years of flying ahead before
being able to take the practical test. If and when one of these kids
show the ability, (and gets the training), I will sign off for cross
country.


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