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IFR use of handheld GPS



 
 
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  #81  
Old May 7th 06, 04:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"150flivver" wrote in message
oups.com...

In navigator training back when we actually used a sextant, whenever
our mission called for legs using celestial navigation ATC would give
us a celnav clearance. This allowed us much more airspace than a
"direct" clearance as celestial nav was less precise than other methods
of navigation.


Yes, but probably not as less precise as you think!


  #82  
Old May 7th 06, 04:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:MpR6g.175231$bm6.132922@fed1read04...

Part 95, IFR Altitudes establishes MEAs and is the authority for airways
and Jet Routes. Those airways are rules, just like an instrument approach
procedure is a rule.

With instrument approach procedures (in addition to RNAV/GPS IAPs) you
have VOR and NBD IAPs that are approved for overlay flight with GPS. That
is the authorization to substitute GPS for VOR, where authorized on the
chart.

You don't have any overlay (i.e., standalone, non-radar) authorization fo
Victor Airways or Jet Routes. Thus, if you are not in a radar environment
you cannot use RNAV as primary for Victor airways or Jet Routes.

Does anyone care? Only if something goes wrong.

There are a few Q Routes, which are predicated solely on RNAV, but thus
far they have been established where traffic volumne is high and radar is
available. They are pretty much for the airlines in the lower 48, thus
far. And, I believe they are all in the high altitude stratum.

As I said before, Alaska has a special authorization that specifically
permits GPS/RNAV overlay of Victor airways.


You haven't cited a rule.



  #83  
Old May 7th 06, 04:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...

And how many AC's are referenced in the FARs?


I don't know. You'll have to count them yourself.


  #84  
Old May 7th 06, 04:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

So, the initial purpose of this thread was to discuss whether or not one
could use a handheld GPS for IFR navigation. Lots of people have been
tossing around lots of opinions with little or no references to rules or
guidance to back them up (hardly surprising...this is usenet after all...)

Anyway, for my own personal edification and enlightenment, I went and
tracked down the official FAA Advisory Circular that specifies what
the requirements are for the use of GPS under IFR. It's entitled
"Airworthiness Approval of Navigation or Flight Management Systems
Integrating Multiple Navigation Sensors", and is FAA AC 20-130A.
It's about as exciting to read as the dictionary (again, hardly
surprising). However, the Gleim Instrument Pilot Flight Manueuvers and
Practical Test Prep guide (which is where I found the reference in the
first place) does a nice job of summarizing the requirements for use of
GPS under IFR as specified in AC 20-130A. It states:

Authorization to conduct any GPS operation under IFR requires that:
a) GPS navigation equipment used must be FAA-approved and the installation
must be done in accordance with FAA requirements
i) Approval for the use of the GPS for IFR operations, and any
limitations, will be found in the airplane's POH (also called
the FAA-approved Airplane Flight Manual) and the airplane's
logbook
ii) VFR and hand-held GPS systems are not authorized for IFR
navigation, for instrument approaches, or as a principle
instrument flight references. During IFR operations, they
may be considered only an aid to situational awareness.

Aircraft using GPS navigation equipment under IFR must be equipped with an
approved and operational alternate means of navigation appropriate to the
flight.
a) Active monitoring of the alternative navigation equipment is not required
if the GPS receiver uses RAIM for integrity monitoring.
b) Active monitoring of the alternative navigation equipment is required
when the RAIM capability of the GPS equipment is lost.

This seems fairly clear to me.....

-- Dane
  #85  
Old May 7th 06, 06:49 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

In article ,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

And how many AC's are referenced in the FARs?


I don't know. You'll have to count them yourself.


can you find even one?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

  #86  
Old May 7th 06, 07:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

The ATC folks like to quote FAA Order 7110.65R
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp5/atc0505.html#5-5-1 which says, among
other stuff that I don't understand, that "Radar separation shall be
applied to all RNAV aircraft operating on a random (impromptu) route at
or below FL 450..."


You're in the wrong chapter. See paragraphs 4-1-1 and 4-1-2 at the link
below:

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp4/atc0401.html


Uh, you are referencing procedures for issuing a direct clearance to a
navaid, what I quoted was for the ever popular direct-to-an-airport
clearance, if I am understanding things right. It shows up again as
Note 1 in paragraph 4-1-2.

  #87  
Old May 7th 06, 07:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:J4F6g.175209$bm6.131782@fed1read04...

My caution applies primarily in the Western DMA. You are home free in the
middle of the country above 4,000, or so, and 8,000, or so in the Eastern
DMA. In the Western DMA there are airways a whole lot lower than areas
between them.



An MIA applies to the areas between them.



And, we hope it is applied.
  #88  
Old May 7th 06, 08:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:




Actually, I did answer your question, twice. You're just too dim to realize
it.

You wrote, some time ago now; "The 'rule' is that direct routes initiated by
ATC are limited to the service volume of VOR (or rarely, NDBs) and the
controller can assure that
MIAs will not be violated." The "rule" has nothing to do with service
volumes. NAVAID usable distance limits in FAAO 7110.65 are based on MSL
altitudes and flight levels, service volumes are based on AGL altitudes.

Is the bulb any brighter now?


No, I need more help to understand how VOR or NDB direct-route
assignments by ATC are based on AGL altitudes.
  #89  
Old May 7th 06, 08:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:MpR6g.175231$bm6.132922@fed1read04...

Part 95, IFR Altitudes establishes MEAs and is the authority for airways
and Jet Routes. Those airways are rules, just like an instrument approach
procedure is a rule.

With instrument approach procedures (in addition to RNAV/GPS IAPs) you
have VOR and NBD IAPs that are approved for overlay flight with GPS. That
is the authorization to substitute GPS for VOR, where authorized on the
chart.

You don't have any overlay (i.e., standalone, non-radar) authorization fo
Victor Airways or Jet Routes. Thus, if you are not in a radar environment
you cannot use RNAV as primary for Victor airways or Jet Routes.

Does anyone care? Only if something goes wrong.

There are a few Q Routes, which are predicated solely on RNAV, but thus
far they have been established where traffic volumne is high and radar is
available. They are pretty much for the airlines in the lower 48, thus
far. And, I believe they are all in the high altitude stratum.

As I said before, Alaska has a special authorization that specifically
permits GPS/RNAV overlay of Victor airways.



You haven't cited a rule.



I cited Part 95. It is a rule.
  #90  
Old May 7th 06, 08:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:2Xx6g.175203$bm6.65816@fed1read04...

You are not allowed to use an IFR-certified GPS for en route (domestic
airspace) in a non-radar environment except with the special Alaska
provisions.



Nonsense.


Where is your reference that GPS is primary for sole means en route
navigation?
 




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