Turn to Final - Keeping Ball Centered

While making a turn to base and final recently, I was aware that I was
going to be wide with my normal turn from downwind through base to
final, so I banked more to keep as close to the runway centerline as
possible. I kept thinking about the infamous and usually fatal stall/
spin by some pilots in this situation, I kept thinking that if I keep
the ball centered, even with a very steep bank, that I would be ok and
not auger in. Some of you instructors and old pros...is this correct?
(Not that I intend to make it a practice.)

Are you suggesting you can't stall with a centered ball? Go slow
enough, and in a steep turn the stall will put your stomach in your
throat.




On Mar 11, 11:23*pm, skym wrote:
While making a turn to base and final recently, I was aware that I was
going to be wide with my normal turn from downwind through base to
final, so I banked more to keep as close to the runway centerline as
possible. *I kept thinking about the infamous and usually fatal stall/
spin by some pilots in this situation, *I kept thinking that if I keep
the ball centered, even with a very steep bank, that I would be ok and
not auger in. *Some of you instructors and old pros...is this correct?
(Not that I intend to make it a practice.)

No, certainly not.

Stall speed increases dramatically with angle of bank: the more
vertical your wings become, the less horizontal lift they supply for a
given air speed.

You can definitely stall with the ball centered. This is true
regardless of bank angle. If you do stall below TPA (like when turning
base to final) your odds of auguring in are high no matter how neatly
centered your ball was when you initiated the stall.

On Mar 11, 8:23 pm, skym wrote:
While making a turn to base and final recently, I was aware that I was
going to be wide with my normal turn from downwind through base to
final, so I banked more to keep as close to the runway centerline as
possible. I kept thinking about the infamous and usually fatal stall/
spin by some pilots in this situation, I kept thinking that if I keep
the ball centered, even with a very steep bank, that I would be ok and
not auger in. Some of you instructors and old pros...is this correct?
(Not that I intend to make it a practice.)

skym wrote:

While making a turn to base and final recently, I was aware that I was
going to be wide with my normal turn from downwind through base to
final, so I banked more to keep as close to the runway centerline as
possible. I kept thinking about the infamous and usually fatal stall/
spin by some pilots in this situation, I kept thinking that if I keep
the ball centered, even with a very steep bank, that I would be ok and
not auger in. Some of you instructors and old pros...is this correct?
(Not that I intend to make it a practice.)

What happens to stall speed as your bank angle increases?

What are two options to preventing a stall (regardless of whether a
spin in entered)?

Ron Lee

On Mar 12, 4:39 pm, (Ron Lee) wrote:

What happens to stall speed as your bank angle increases?

Increases (supposing that you're turning)

What are two options to preventing a stall (regardless of whether a
spin in entered)?

1)Keep your airspeed up
2)ncrease power and keep your airspeed up

What are two options to preventing a stall (regardless of whether a
spin in entered)?

1)Keep your airspeed up
2)ncrease power and keep your airspeed up

I would have said get the nose down (increase airspeed)
and go-around (not far from your #2.

Ron Lee

On Mar 13, 11:22 am, (Ron Lee) wrote:
What are two options to preventing a stall (regardless of whether a
spin in entered)?

1)Keep your airspeed up
2)ncrease power and keep your airspeed up

I would have said get the nose down (increase airspeed)
and go-around (not far from your #2.

And go off with an instructor to 3,500 AGL and rehearse the steep
descending turn manoeuvre until you are happy with your understanding
of the situation..

"Ron Lee" wrote in message
...
skym wrote:
...
What happens to stall speed as your bank angle increases?

Nothing. Stall speed changes with G's which are caused by pulling on the
stick - not by bank angle.

What are two options to preventing a stall (regardless of whether a
spin in entered)?

1) Don't pull.
2) Keep the speed up.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
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When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

Thanks for replies. I had meant to address the speed issue since I
knew the stall speed increased with bank. I also kept my speed higher
than normal in the turn because of that. I left it out of the
question, and shouldn't have. Assuming I keep the speed up, is the
centered ball a reliable guide?

I don't think anyone has suggested this, but there is a nearly
universal cure if you find yourself uncomfortably out of a reasonable
approach condition -- simply say to yourself this isn't looking good
enough, go around, and do better the next time.

It's my uneducated opinion that too many perfectly good airplanes get
turned to scrap because pilots continue to commit to an action that
has become untenable. You have a hand on the throttle and it's
important to remember to be ready to push it in if you don't like the
way things are shaping up.

Don't let ego get in the way of good judgement.