A Question For Real Airline Pilots

Blue schrieb:

I have a question that can only possibly be answered by real airline pilots
and pilots of the heavy oil-burners at that. Even they may not know - or
want to tell the answer.

I have heard that most if not all of the heavies now flying have special
equipment in them to thwart hijacking. The equipment that I am referring to
is not just an autopilot which is standard but additional mechanical devices
to completely remove control from the cockpit making it possible to take
control away from the flight officers and giving that control to an outside
pilot which could be in a following aircraft or at an airport or anywhere.

Hope a real airline pilot will comment on this question.

Would you want to fly in a plane equipped like that? I would not. The
chances of the system going wrong leaving the plane being controlled by
nobody are higher than the chances of being hijacked by a suicide
bomber.
You should read Bruce Schneier's book about real security.
http://www.schneier.com/book-beyondfear.html

T.

On Thu, 20 May 2004 14:24:03 +0200, Thomas Peel wrote:

Blue schrieb:

I have a question that can only possibly be answered by real airline pilots
and pilots of the heavy oil-burners at that. Even they may not know - or
want to tell the answer.

I have heard that most if not all of the heavies now flying have special
equipment in them to thwart hijacking. The equipment that I am referring to
is not just an autopilot which is standard but additional mechanical devices
to completely remove control from the cockpit making it possible to take
control away from the flight officers and giving that control to an outside
pilot which could be in a following aircraft or at an airport or anywhere.

Hope a real airline pilot will comment on this question.

Would you want to fly in a plane equipped like that? I would not. The
chances of the system going wrong leaving the plane being controlled by
nobody are higher than the chances of being hijacked by a suicide
bomber.
You should read Bruce Schneier's book about real security.
http://www.schneier.com/book-beyondfear.html

T.

I am in total agreement with you. There would have to be a way to disable
the remote control from the cockpit and how would you keep the hijackers
from learning how to do this?

I will get Schneier's book. I have a couple of his booksand have met him,
but didn't know about that book.

He also has an email news letter that comes out monthly that usually has a
lot of info on various types of security. to subscribe go to
http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram.html.

JakeInHartsel

Blue wrote:

I have a question that can only possibly be answered by real airline pilots
and pilots of the heavy oil-burners at that. Even they may not know - or
want to tell the answer.

I have heard that most if not all of the heavies now flying have special
equipment in them to thwart hijacking. The equipment that I am referring to
is not just an autopilot which is standard but additional mechanical devices
to completely remove control from the cockpit making it possible to take
control away from the flight officers and giving that control to an outside
pilot which could be in a following aircraft or at an airport or anywhere.

Hope a real airline pilot will comment on this question.

A remote controlled airliner has already been done. There's a well
known test
on an airliner in the desert.
The heavy was equipped with special fuel tanks and anti-misting fuel.
The idea was to try to reduce the explosion / fire hazard in an airliner
when it crashed.
So, they outfitted an airliner with this fuel setup, installed remote controll,
flew it and crached it into the desert.
The airplane flew well but the test failed. The fireball was spectacular.
There is a video around that's not too hard to get.

On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:56:53 GMT, coustanis wrote:

Blue wrote:

I have a question that can only possibly be answered by real airline pilots
and pilots of the heavy oil-burners at that. Even they may not know - or
want to tell the answer.

I have heard that most if not all of the heavies now flying have special
equipment in them to thwart hijacking. The equipment that I am referring to
is not just an autopilot which is standard but additional mechanical devices
to completely remove control from the cockpit making it possible to take
control away from the flight officers and giving that control to an outside
pilot which could be in a following aircraft or at an airport or anywhere.

Hope a real airline pilot will comment on this question.

A remote controlled airliner has already been done. There's a well
known test
on an airliner in the desert.
The heavy was equipped with special fuel tanks and anti-misting fuel.
The idea was to try to reduce the explosion / fire hazard in an airliner
when it crashed.
So, they outfitted an airliner with this fuel setup, installed remote controll,
flew it and crached it into the desert.
The airplane flew well but the test failed. The fireball was spectacular.
There is a video around that's not too hard to get.

It really did not fly per se, it simply was run down the desert the the
landing gears were sheared off and it "flew" a short distance before
crashing. There was some obstructions in fron of it to assure that the fuel
tanks would rupture.

JakeInHartsel

Glenn Jacobs wrote in message ...
On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:56:53 GMT, coustanis wrote:
A remote controlled airliner has already been done. There's a well
known test on an airliner in the desert. The heavy was equipped with
special fuel tanks and anti-misting fuel. [...]

It really did not fly per se, it simply was run down the desert the the
landing gears were sheared off and it "flew" a short distance before
crashing. There was some obstructions in fron of it to assure that the fuel
tanks would rupture.

You must be thinking of a different test. The one that most people
think of was like this, according to NASA:

"On the morning of December 1, 1984, a remotely controlled Boeing 720
transport took off from Edwards Air Force Base (Edwards, California),
made a left-hand departure and climbed to an altitude of 2300 feet. It
then began a descent-to-landing to a specially prepared runway on the
east side of Rogers Dry Lake. Final approach was along the roughly
3.8-degree glide slope. The landing gear was left retracted. Passing
the decision height of 150 feet above ground level (AGL), the aircraft
was slightly to the right of the desired path. Just above that
decision point at which the pilot was to execute a "go-around," there
appeared to be enough altitude to maneuver back to the centerline of
the runway. Data acquisition systems had been activated, and the
aircraft was committed to impact. It contacted the ground, left wing
low. The fire and smoke took over an hour to extinguish. "

Glenn Jacobs wrote:

On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:56:53 GMT, coustanis wrote:

Blue wrote:

I have a question that can only possibly be answered by real airline pilots
and pilots of the heavy oil-burners at that. Even they may not know - or
want to tell the answer.

I have heard that most if not all of the heavies now flying have special
equipment in them to thwart hijacking. The equipment that I am referring to
is not just an autopilot which is standard but additional mechanical devices
to completely remove control from the cockpit making it possible to take
control away from the flight officers and giving that control to an outside
pilot which could be in a following aircraft or at an airport or anywhere.

Hope a real airline pilot will comment on this question.

A remote controlled airliner has already been done. There's a well
known test
on an airliner in the desert.
The heavy was equipped with special fuel tanks and anti-misting fuel.
The idea was to try to reduce the explosion / fire hazard in an airliner
when it crashed.
So, they outfitted an airliner with this fuel setup, installed remote controll,
flew it and crached it into the desert.
The airplane flew well but the test failed. The fireball was spectacular.
There is a video around that's not too hard to get.

It really did not fly per se, it simply was run down the desert the the
landing gears were sheared off and it "flew" a short distance before
crashing. There was some obstructions in fron of it to assure that the fuel
tanks would rupture.


It flew all right. It shows in the video as it descends in a flat
attitude until it impacted the desert floor.
The rest is, as they say, history.

"Blue" wrote in message ...
I have heard that most if not all of the heavies now flying have special
equipment in them to thwart hijacking. The equipment that I am referring to
is not just an autopilot which is standard but additional mechanical devices
to completely remove control from the cockpit making it possible to take
control away from the flight officers and giving that control to an outside
pilot which could be in a following aircraft or at an airport or anywhere.

It's a moot question.

There's no need for such a setup now. Cockpit doors have been
reinforced, pilots won't open it even if everyone's being killed in
back, heavies with large fuel loads probably have an air marshall
aboard.

In short, it's doubtful that another 9/11 can take place in the same
way as before, at least with passenger airliners.