P-47/51 deflection shots into the belly of the German tanks,reality

Tony Williams wrote:

I wouldn't want to have flown a plane fitted only with American
Hispanos, but fortunately there were very few of those. British
Hispanos, or German MG 151/20s, were a different matter.

I understand that Canadian Car and Foundry assembled Helldivers with
Hispanos as part of the armament. Where did they get them -- U.K. or
U.S. production?
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

Andrew Chaplin wrote in message ...
Tony Williams wrote:

I wouldn't want to have flown a plane fitted only with American
Hispanos,


Unfortunately no one will ask you or care what you want to fly. You
will fly what you are told to fly. And there are three things you may
say on this subject. They a

1 Yes sir.
2. No sir.
3. No excuse sir.

Name your poison.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
9th Air Force
England France Belgium Holland Italy Germany

Arthur Kramer wrote:

Andrew Chaplin wrote in message ...
Tony Williams wrote:

I wouldn't want to have flown a plane fitted only with American
Hispanos,

Unfortunately no one will ask you or care what you want to fly. You
will fly what you are told to fly. And there are three things you may
say on this subject. They a

1 Yes sir.
2. No sir.
3. No excuse sir.

Name your poison.

Art, don't be such a twit. You should know better than that, unless
you were the squadron punching bag back there on "Willie the Wolf" --
from the noises you make you might have been.

No one asked what the reaction was to what was installed or what
options were available to flyers. I asked what was installed on those
aircraft. Among the questions left to be answered are how those
aircraft were employed and how the cannon performed.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

Subject: P-47/51 deflection shots into the belly of the German
tanks,reality
From: Andrew Chaplin
Date: 8/21/03 6:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Arthur Kramer wrote:

Andrew Chaplin wrote in message
. ..
Tony Williams wrote:

I wouldn't want to have flown a plane fitted only with American
Hispanos,

Unfortunately no one will ask you or care what you want to fly. You
will fly what you are told to fly. And there are three things you may
say on this subject. They a

1 Yes sir.
2. No sir.
3. No excuse sir.

Name your poison.

Art, don't be such a twit. You should know better than that, unless

It is time you faced reality. No one gives a damn what you would rather fly.
We flew what we were assigned to fly. I get the feeling that you never flew
much of anything. Right wannabee?


Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

(Arthur Kramer) wrote in message . com...
Andrew Chaplin wrote in message ...
Tony Williams wrote:

I wouldn't want to have flown a plane fitted only with American
Hispanos,


Unfortunately no one will ask you or care what you want to fly. You
will fly what you are told to fly. And there are three things you may
say on this subject. They a

1 Yes sir.
2. No sir.
3. No excuse sir.

Name your poison.

Odd how Art subscribes to this position in this case, but whenever the
subject of folks serving in the combat support/service support arenas
pops up, he lays their lot in life solely at their own discretion. I
guess those three "things you may say" only applied to combat aircrew?


Brooks

Arthur Kramer

ArtKramr wrote:

It is time you faced reality. No one gives a damn what you would rather fly.
We flew what we were assigned to fly. I get the feeling that you never flew
much of anything. Right wannabee?

Wrong. This has nothing to do with operations, it's about production.

My question was about the assembly of the Helldiver by Canadian Car
and Foundry in what is now Thunder Bay, Ontario. The U.S.-built
versions were assembled with 20 mm M2 Hispano cannon. I would like
like to know what the source of the cannon was for those aircraft
assembled by CCF.

I'm a "wannaknow", not a "wannabe".
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

In response to the debate on P-47 deflection shots into the belly of
German Tanks:

Hello everyone. My first post here. I have a copy of THUNDERBOLTS:THE
CONQUEST OF THE REICH which aired two years ago on the History
Channel. It is the CLEAREST and BEST WWII footage I have ever seen.
Anyways, a P47 pilot mentions how he deflected his ammo off the ground
in order to hit the bellies of Tiger Tanks and other vehicles. The
documentary also shows actual footage of the ammo being deflected off
the ground and busting the tank. It's amazing.

I can upload this short clip if the group is interested.

Subject: P-47/51 deflection shots into the belly of the German
tanks,reality
From: (Nick)
Date: 8/25/03 4:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

In response to the debate on P-47 deflection shots into the belly of
German Tanks:

Hello everyone. My first post here. I have a copy of THUNDERBOLTS:THE
CONQUEST OF THE REICH which aired two years ago on the History
Channel. It is the CLEAREST and BEST WWII footage I have ever seen.
Anyways, a P47 pilot mentions how he deflected his ammo off the ground
in order to hit the bellies of Tiger Tanks and other vehicles. The
documentary also shows actual footage of the ammo being deflected off
the ground and busting the tank. It's amazing.

I can upload this short clip if the group is interested.


Very interested. Of course those of us who where there know it can and was
done. Those who deny it were never there.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

(Nick) wrote in message . com...
In response to the debate on P-47 deflection shots into the belly of
German Tanks:

Hello everyone. My first post here. I have a copy of THUNDERBOLTS:THE
CONQUEST OF THE REICH which aired two years ago on the History
Channel. It is the CLEAREST and BEST WWII footage I have ever seen.
Anyways, a P47 pilot mentions how he deflected his ammo off the ground
in order to hit the bellies of Tiger Tanks and other vehicles. The
documentary also shows actual footage of the ammo being deflected off
the ground and busting the tank. It's amazing.

I can upload this short clip if the group is interested.

Yes please. I wouldn't take much notice of what pilots claimed - no
disrespect to them, but as has been pointed out before they were not
operating under conditions suitable for accurate observation, and the
evidence collected at the time shows that no more than one-tenth of
their claims could be verified. However, I would very interested to
see the video clip.

Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Military gun and ammunition discussion forum:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/

In message , Tony
Williams writes
Yes please. I wouldn't take much notice of what pilots claimed - no
disrespect to them, but as has been pointed out before they were not
operating under conditions suitable for accurate observation, and the
evidence collected at the time shows that no more than one-tenth of
their claims could be verified.

I recently reread Martin Middlebrook's books on the Falklands; it's very
interesting to compare engagements when both participants tell their
stories; such as a ship's certainty that they shot down one of the
Skyhawks attacking them, while all four of the flight returned home
safely. Everyone involved is telling the truth as they saw it, but the
huge splash of a long bomb and the volume of defensive fire convinced
the defenders they'd got a kill.

However, I would very interested to
see the video clip.

Likewise.

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk