Why is Soaring declining

I have read through these posts with great interest because I recently took up gliding and I am now obsessing about it in the most frightful way. My wife is worried for my mental health. This thread interests me because it sheds some light on some of the issues I will have to deal with given my new addiction. Having come from a hang gliding/paragliding background I think I have a unique perspective on the whole thing. I started HGing in the early 80’s, a kind of golden era of the sport. I remember when the first primitive paragliders came along in the mid 80’s. No one ever thought they’d really catch one. And now? HGing is virtually dead and PGing rules. Why? Easy to learn, cheap, and a very direct experience. Plus, and this is not to be belittled: good show off potential. PGing has sucked the life blood out of HGing and indirectly out of soaring. Why? Because aging HGing pilots are a good source for sailplane pilots and because there are fewer of them that means fewer potential recruits for sailplanes. Soaring needs to appeal to the saner side of PGing pilots – why risk canopy collapses, broken backs and snapped ankles when you can fly safely and comfortably in a sailplane?

All it takes to get a Soaring Mag in the barbers chair
is to take one you are finished with and drop it in
there. I drop them at the doctors office and in the
university library. Also if someone feels they are
not willing to join the SSA to read the mag and want
to check it out, just drop me an email and I will send
you a couple of issues that are a month or two old.
I am sure a lot of other guys would be willing to pass
theirs on as well. Like a lot of guys I collected them
for about 25 years until I realized I would never read
most of them again. jeffAt 02:54 15 April 2004, Bill Daniels wrote:Eric presents a reasonable picture of the glider market.
In fact, I thinkthe present glider market is about right. There is
a market forstate-of-the-art gliders for competition and a flourishing
market in usedgliders.A person of modest means can buy a 20 year old glass
glider with spectacularperformance. That 20 year old glider wouldn't be such
a bargain on the usedmarket if some competition pilot hadn't bought it for
an astronomical sumwhen it was new. We need to stop knocking competition,
it creates a marketof really neat used gliders. When I started, if you
wanted a highperformance glider, you had to build it. By comparison,
this market isnirvana. The availability and cost of gliders isn't
the real problem.One of the many problems that does need attention is
training costs. Rentaland airtow make getting a glider rating cost more than
a private powercertificate in many locations. It's also a LOT more
hassle to get glidertraining because of the short flights and long waits.
For anyone interestedin aviation but who hasn't chosen whether to go for
soaring or anotheraviation related activity, this is a problem. Glider
training costs,particularly the overall hourly rates, just don't look
reasonable bycomparison.Now, I'm NOT suggesting that anyone is overcharging
for rentals or air tows.It costs what is does for very good reasons. It's
just that those reasonsare not apparent to the newcomer.I think it might be a good idea to take a long hard
look at the training'experience' from the students point of view to see
if there isn't somethingthat could be done to make it more attractive. The
first thing I wouldsuggest is to look at winch launch for training.Bill Daniels'Eric Greenwell' wrote in ... Lennie the Lurker wrote: Almost every sailplane made today is made with the competitor in mind, and the manufacturers aren't
going to listen to any suggestion that maybe something more pedestrian
might sell. There is some truth to this claim, but it's more complicated
than the manufacturers 'not listening'. They know their gliders
must do well in competition (at least the major factories), because
potential buyers think this is important, even though the majority
of buyers aren't serious competitors (note that the majority of the
German sailplane production is now motorized). There are some 'second-tier' gliders, like the reintroduction
of the Glasflugel 304, the Russia AC-4, Apis, and Silent;
however, any new glider that isn't a top-of-the-line glider has some
serious competition in the market: used gliders. Glider last a long time,
and the performance improvements have been slow, so a new
glider that isn't better, just cheaper, has to compete with equal performance,
even cheaper used gliders. This situation is quite different from the hang glider
market, where the gliders wear out much sooner, and the improvements
from year to year are much greater than they are for sailplanes. and the manufacturers aren't going to listen to any suggestion that maybe something more pedestrian
might sell. Just join a thread ripping apart the PW5 to see how
something 'more pedestrian' might sell. The PW5 actually has sold
OK, as did the Russia, and so that may be why we now have the Apis and Silent
(at least in part). Attitudes are slowly changing, and 'moderate'
performance is becoming more acceptable. The manufacturers would probably build more intermediate
gliders if the sport was growing fast enough to drive up the price
of the used gliders, thus making a new glider of similar performance profitable
enough to be worthwhile. -- ----- change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA

All it takes to get a Soaring Mag in the barbers chair
is to take one you are finished with and drop it in
there. I drop them at the doctors office and in the
university library.

Yes, and many libraries will add subscriptions on request. SSA even has a
special subscriber only price for this.

Allow me to summarize what I have learned from this thread.
Soaring has declined for these reasons:

1. Money
2. Accessibility
3. Competition from other activities
4. Elitism

Valiant efforts have been made to lessen the impact of the first
three, but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the
fourth, the easiest one to address?

-Pat

Pat Russell wrote in message . ..
Allow me to summarize what I have learned from this thread.
Soaring has declined for these reasons:

1. Money
2. Accessibility
3. Competition from other activities
4. Elitism

Valiant efforts have been made to lessen the impact of the first
three, but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the
fourth, the easiest one to address?

-Pat

I think the elitism problem is largely an urban myth.

It's all too easy for unsuccesful pilots to blame elitism rather than
take a hard look at their own lack of skill, ability or perserverence.

Perhaps we should start voluntarily limiting our flights to 1 hour and
within 15 miles of the airport so the Lennies of the world needn't
feel so bad about their lack of achievement.

(Liam Finley) wrote in message . com...

Perhaps we should start voluntarily limiting our flights to 1 hour and
within 15 miles of the airport so the Lennies of the world needn't
feel so bad about their lack of achievement.

That's quite ok, lemming. If I work for five minutes, I will have
achieved more in those five minutes than you have in your lifetime.
Hours in the log mean nothing outside of that piece of garbage
wrapping. MY greatest achievement was realizing that soaring is just
a money suck, and getting out of it. Next came the axle for the
motorized wheelchair that I made a week ago at no cost. Your soaring
achievements have done _what_ to help someone else that has a _real_
need?

Pipe it up your rear, kraut.

I knew it was too good to last. From feast to famine, he's back to his old
routine again.

That's quite ok, lemming. If I work for five minutes, I will have
achieved more in those five minutes than you have in your lifetime.
Hours in the log mean nothing outside of that piece of garbage
wrapping. MY greatest achievement was realizing that soaring is just
a money suck, and getting out of it. Next came the axle for the
motorized wheelchair that I made a week ago at no cost. Your soaring
achievements have done _what_ to help someone else that has a _real_
need?

Pipe it up your rear, kraut.



Jim Vincent
CFIG
N483SZ
illspam

illspam (Jim Vincent) wrote in message ...
I knew it was too good to last. From feast to famine, he's back to his old
routine again.

Me and that rodent from krautland are never going to have a good word
for each other. I couldn't ask for a more perfect example of an
elitist, arrogant fathead than finley.

"Liam Finley" wrote in message
om...
Pat Russell wrote in message
. ..
Allow me to summarize what I have learned from this thread.
Soaring has declined for these reasons:

1. Money
2. Accessibility
3. Competition from other activities
4. Elitism

Valiant efforts have been made to lessen the impact of the first
three, but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the
fourth, the easiest one to address?

-Pat

I think the elitism problem is largely an urban myth.

It's all too easy for unsuccesful pilots to blame elitism rather than
take a hard look at their own lack of skill, ability or perserverence.

Perhaps we should start voluntarily limiting our flights to 1 hour and
within 15 miles of the airport so the Lennies of the world needn't
feel so bad about their lack of achievement.

After reading your post, I'm certain that the fish of the world "think that
water is largely an urban myth".

Tim Ward

Liam Finley wrote:

snip

I think the elitism problem is largely an urban myth.

It's all too easy for unsuccesful pilots to blame elitism rather than
take a hard look at their own lack of skill, ability or perserverence.

Stop! There it is-
"Skill, ability, and perseverance."
This is supposed to be a fun recreational activity/hobby/sport, yet it
requires "skill, ability, and perseverance".
That's a lot to ask. That sounds more like the military or marriage
than a fun recreational activity. Any sport or hobby will benefit from
skill, ability, and perseverance, but ours demands it as an entry fee.
Don't get me wrong, I think that's OK. A lot of people looking for long
term reward in a new activity may seek out such demands rather than "Buy
a bigger, better X, Y or Z. Have more fun!" or "more megapixels makes
you a better photographer". We could promote that. "Soaring is more
than a trip to the mall" or whatever.
This sort of demand takes physical and emotional energy. If that's an
expectation when you begin in soaring, you'll be better prepared.
Someone in another post noted that the BGA (IIRC) is great at getting
new members but terrible at keeping them. Part of that is certainly
skill, ability, and perseverance. If people know this is part of the
package up front, or have been lured in because of it, retention of
those new members will increase.
I having these qualities is elitism, well that can be used to our
benefit too.

Shawn