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Head orientation in turns--how is it taught for aviation?



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 10th 07, 06:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default Head orientation in turns--how is it taught for aviation?

writes:

FAA permits teaching of either method. See AC 61-104.


I can't find 61-104; do you have a pointer to it?
  #12  
Old June 10th 07, 06:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
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Posts: 37
Default Head orientation in turns--how is it taught for aviation?

On Jun 10, 1:33 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

I can't find 61-104; do you have a pointer to it?


Can't successfully Google anymore? Suicide watch for you.

F--

  #13  
Old June 10th 07, 06:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
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Default Head orientation in turns--how is it taught for aviation?

On Jun 10, 1:26 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

Perhaps pilots would be less prone to disorientation if they kept their heads
normal to the horizon, even in turns (for instrument flight, this would mean
keeping one's head level with the horizon of the attitude indicator).


That means real pilots get disoriented in visual flight. Amazing
factoid. Here you go again.

F--

  #14  
Old June 10th 07, 06:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Thomas Borchert
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Default Head orientation in turns--how is it taught for aviation?

Mxsmanic,

When you learn to ride a motorcycle, you're taught to keep your
head normal to the horizon in turns ... because turning your head with the
bike as you lean into a turn results in disorientation.


So what is the difference between a bike and a plane in a turn? And why would
your idea below lead to more disorientation in a plane, not less? You can
figure it out. Just try.

Perhaps pilots would be less prone to disorientation if they kept their heads
normal to the horizon, even in turns (for instrument flight, this would mean
keeping one's head level with the horizon of the attitude indicator).


Ah, I was wondering what angle you would come up with this time to present a
really stupid idea as wisdom superior to what actual pilots do. You never fail
to deliver. I guess it requires some kind of intellect...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #15  
Old June 10th 07, 07:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Bob Moore
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Default Head orientation in turns--how is it taught for aviation?

Mxsmanic wrote
I note from in-cockpit videos of aerobatic pilots that they keep their
heads level with the horizon, not level with the aircraft.


Because they are not normally operating in coordinated flight.

Bob Moore
  #16  
Old June 10th 07, 07:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Bob Moore
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Posts: 291
Default Head orientation in turns--how is it taught for aviation?

Mxsmanic wrote
but if your head is level with the wings (and the
turn is coordinated), you'll incorrectly perceive the turn as a climb
or descent. I can easily see how this latter policy would encourage
disorientation.


The perception of a climb or descent is primarily through your butt
not the head.

Bob Moore
  #17  
Old June 10th 07, 07:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Head orientation in turns--how is it taught for aviation?

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Bob Moore writes:


Head and body should remain perpendicular to the floor of the
cockpit. This comes naturally if the turn is coordinated.


Interesting. When you learn to ride a motorcycle, you're taught to keep your
head normal to the horizon in turns ... because turning your head with the
bike as you lean into a turn results in disorientation.


How relevant.

Next you want to tell us what you do in a sailboat?

Perhaps pilots would be less prone to disorientation if they kept their heads
normal to the horizon, even in turns (for instrument flight, this would mean
keeping one's head level with the horizon of the attitude indicator).


You really are terrified by the thought of disorientation, aren't you?

I note from in-cockpit videos of aerobatic pilots that they keep their heads
level with the horizon, not level with the aircraft.


Did you bother to note whether or not the manuever was cooridinated or
do you think all aerobatic manuevers are coordinated 100% of the time?

--
Jim Pennino

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  #18  
Old June 10th 07, 07:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Head orientation in turns--how is it taught for aviation?

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Viperdoc writes:


Now, please proceed to impress us with your knowledge about the vestibular
system.


I know that if it isn't disturbed, it isn't confused. I also know that if
your head is level with the horizon, you'll feel turns as a sideways movement,
but if your head is level with the wings (and the turn is coordinated), you'll
incorrectly perceive the turn as a climb or descent. I can easily see how
this latter policy would encourage disorientation.


And just how would you "know" this, simulator boy?

If a turn is coordinated, you don't feel a turn no matter how your
head is oriented.

Abrupt climbs or descents are perceived in your butt.

Continuous climbs or descents are perceived by the location of the
horizon relative to the nose of the aircraft.

--
Jim Pennino

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  #19  
Old June 10th 07, 08:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default Head orientation in turns--how is it taught for aviation?

Thomas Borchert writes:

So what is the difference between a bike and a plane in a turn?


None, if the turn is level and coordinated, from a vestibular standpoint.

And why would
your idea below lead to more disorientation in a plane, not less? You can
figure it out. Just try.


Explain it to me.
  #20  
Old June 10th 07, 08:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default Head orientation in turns--how is it taught for aviation?

Bob Moore writes:

Because they are not normally operating in coordinated flight.


Why would that make a difference?

What they seem to be doing is minimizing the tilting of their heads, just as
motorcycle racers, ballet dancers, and ice skaters do.
 




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