Head orientation in turns--how is it taught for aviation?

Mxsmanic wrote in
news
writes:

FAA permits teaching of either method. See AC 61-104.

I can't find 61-104; do you have a pointer to it?


I do, send me $35 and I'll send it to you,.

Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
news
writes:

Can't successfully Google anymore? Suicide watch for you.

I looked in the FAA archive.


Oh goodie.

Bertie

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:19:47 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

but not with your head up your ass, fjukktard


Bertie


http://www.lifeisajoke.com/pictures388_html.htm

B A R R Y wrote in
:

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:19:47 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

but not with your head up your ass, fjukktard


Bertie


http://www.lifeisajoke.com/pictures388_html.htm


think i posted that on elast week!

In a previous article, Bertie the Bunyip said:
Mxsmanic wrote in
:
Interesting. When you learn to ride a motorcycle, you're taught to
keep your head normal to the horizon in turns ... because turning your
head with the bike as you lean into a turn results in disorientation.

Yeah, lkike you'd ride a bike,

You think he could afford a car?


--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"He's overweight, uninformed, and litigious. That's an American
hat-trick" - Lewis Black

(Paul Tomblin) wrote in news:f4hnca$aqj$2
@allhats.xcski.com:

In a previous article, Bertie the Bunyip said:
Mxsmanic wrote in
m:
Interesting. When you learn to ride a motorcycle, you're taught to
keep your head normal to the horizon in turns ... because turning
your
head with the bike as you lean into a turn results in
disorientation.

Yeah, lkike you'd ride a bike,

You think he could afford a car?

I can just see him on his ducati trying to find control+alt+delete as he
comes flying over the handlebars over the hood of some SUV



Bertie

Like many A/C, my single tin-can has this aerodynamic thing where if
you really lean into the bank, it prevents her from wanting to return
to wings level. Normally not a problem, but I now suffer from
disorientosis. It stems from 26 yrs on MSFS since v 1.0 in 1983, where
like even in versions today, the airplane will stay at any bank angle
once set. See, I coincidentally make only $647/month like O/P, and
can't afford what they get for joysticks even off eBay. I use keypad
control. Reality in simming is for wusses; just do what the sim
programmer expects.

It got really bad when I was earning my IFR ticket, because I had to
use rudder under the hood, to let the thing slew back toward that
displaced,vertical needle thingy on an ILS. On my Baron in MSFS over
many years, it became ingrained to just use asymmetric thrust to do
that, due to high rudder forces. To maintain GS, I also just used
pitch in my Baron, cause you can't twiddle thrust and do too many
things at once, like also constantly reminding self to keep body erect
despite the efficacy of leaning. It's also just so unintuitive to bank
to fly a straight course, especially when you can't feel a bank, and
they persistently teach you to ignore senses anyway, and you're like
in solid cloud when it's 200-1/2 for real.

Disorientosis really set in when I got glider time, and that bird had
this silly piece of yarn taped to the windscreen. You step on the
ball, but opposite the yarn. But nobody even an ATP can remember that
in solid cloud near ILS minimums.

I did overshoot a rwy once in my actual tin can post an ILS in actual
to mins, using high power to make rudder more effective and pitch for
GS, and thence FAA wanted this 809 ride, whatever. The FAA guy was so
impressed with my technique, crossed needles down to the MM, he asked
me if I had disorientosis. Naw, I lied, but do you fly MSFS? He said
every day; real neat sim. Actual flyin' just don't get no better than
that.

F--

writes:

If the turn is coordinated, there is no "sideways" force to perceive as
that is the definition of a cooridinated turn.

False. The aircraft is being accelerated to one side. If you keep your head
level with the horizon, you'll perceive the turn as a movement to one side.

The only thing the human senses will perceive is an increase in apparent
weight which will depend on the turn rate.

Only if your head is level with the wings, instead of the horizon.

writes:

I have fairly recently started motorcycling
and I was not taught anything about head
movement however I have found that it
seems to help my visual perception
(depth perception?) if I keep my eyes
horizontal (wrt the horizon:-). My natural
action is to lean my head with the bike.

In the training I received, it was made very clear that your head must remain
level with the horizon. The reason? Because you'll suffer spatial
disorientation if you move your head. The same should apply in an aircraft.

This, incidentally, is also a good way to distinguish between a full-motion
simulator and a real aircraft. If you keep your head in the same orientation
in the sim, you'll notice that you hardly feel any movement at all, whereas in
a real aircraft the movement is just as obvious even with your head held still
(although its orientation may change).

writes:

Run out of new questions, or have we just hit the summer re-run season?

A lot of my questions remain unanswered. Many pilots don't know as much as
they'd like to believe.