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How did KPHX Class B get so screwed up?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 31st 08, 01:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default How did KPHX Class B get so screwed up?

Shirl writes:

Mxsmanic wrote:
What is happening to the FAA? The new Class B airspace
at KPHX drives another few nails into the GA coffin.


How so?


It seems to be designed around the assumption that everyone has a moving-map
GPS to show the boundaries of the various sectors. Anyone who doesn't have
this is going to have a devil of a time figuring out whether or not he's
drifting into Class B. Since GA aircraft often don't have a moving-map GPS,
they are being strongly encouraged to stay away by the difficulty inherent in
finding the sector boundaries using just navaids, radials, landmarks, etc.

I know that GA groups were strongly opposed to this new scheme, and I can see
why. The overall impression created is that Phoenix doesn't want any GA
traffic.
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  #2  
Old January 31st 08, 01:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]
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Posts: 2,969
Default How did KPHX Class B get so screwed up?

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Shirl writes:

Mxsmanic wrote:
What is happening to the FAA? The new Class B airspace
at KPHX drives another few nails into the GA coffin.


How so?


It seems to be designed around the assumption that everyone has a
moving-map GPS to show the boundaries of the various sectors. Anyone
who doesn't have this is going to have a devil of a time figuring out
whether or not he's drifting into Class B. Since GA aircraft often
don't have a moving-map GPS, they are being strongly encouraged to
stay away by the difficulty inherent in finding the sector boundaries
using just navaids, radials, landmarks, etc.

I know that GA groups were strongly opposed to this new scheme, and I
can see why. The overall impression created is that Phoenix doesn't
want any GA traffic.


You are an idiot.


Bertie
  #3  
Old January 31st 08, 06:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
JB
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Posts: 69
Default How did KPHX Class B get so screwed up?

On Jan 31, 7:44*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Shirl writes:
Mxsmanic wrote:
What is happening to the FAA? *The new Class B airspace
at KPHX drives another few nails into the GA coffin.


How so?


It seems to be designed around the assumption that everyone has a moving-map
GPS to show the boundaries of the various sectors. *Anyone who doesn't have
this is going to have a devil of a time figuring out whether or not he's
drifting into Class B. *Since GA aircraft often don't have a moving-map GPS,
they are being strongly encouraged to stay away by the difficulty inherent in
finding the sector boundaries using just navaids, radials, landmarks, etc.

I know that GA groups were strongly opposed to this new scheme, and I can see
why. *The overall impression created is that Phoenix doesn't want any GA
traffic.



Anyone with a relatively cheap GPS will be able to navigate this just
fine. This is a non-issue.

--Jeff
  #4  
Old January 31st 08, 06:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default How did KPHX Class B get so screwed up?

JB writes:

Anyone with a relatively cheap GPS will be able to navigate this just
fine. This is a non-issue.


How much does a GPS certified for this type of use cost?
  #5  
Old January 31st 08, 06:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]
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Posts: 2,969
Default How did KPHX Class B get so screwed up?

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

JB writes:

Anyone with a relatively cheap GPS will be able to navigate this just
fine. This is a non-issue.


How much does a GPS certified for this type of use cost?


About a hundred dollars.

How much does a candy bar cost?


Bertie
  #6  
Old January 31st 08, 06:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]
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Posts: 428
Default How did KPHX Class B get so screwed up?

Mxsmanic wrote:
JB writes:

Anyone with a relatively cheap GPS will be able to navigate this just
fine. This is a non-issue.


How much does a GPS certified for this type of use cost?


No certification needed.
  #7  
Old January 31st 08, 06:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
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Posts: 37
Default How did KPHX Class B get so screwed up?

On Jan 31, 12:33 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Anyone with a relatively cheap GPS will be able to navigate this just
fine. This is a non-issue.


How much does a GPS certified for this type of use cost?


A perfect example of how, if you don't actual flight experience in
FAA's system, the answer won't be obvious and you would ask.
such a dumb question.

F--
  #8  
Old January 31st 08, 06:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,892
Default How did KPHX Class B get so screwed up?

Mxsmanic wrote:
JB writes:


Anyone with a relatively cheap GPS will be able to navigate this just
fine. This is a non-issue.


How much does a GPS certified for this type of use cost?


There is no certification requirement for VFR GPS.

If you really flew, you would know this.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.
  #9  
Old February 1st 08, 12:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 373
Default How did KPHX Class B get so screwed up?

On Jan 31, 6:44*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Shirl writes:
Mxsmanic wrote:
What is happening to the FAA? *The new Class B airspace
at KPHX drives another few nails into the GA coffin.


How so?


It seems to be designed around the assumption that everyone has a moving-map
GPS to show the boundaries of the various sectors. *Anyone who doesn't have
this is going to have a devil of a time figuring out whether or not he's
drifting into Class B. *Since GA aircraft often don't have a moving-map GPS,
they are being strongly encouraged to stay away by the difficulty inherent in
finding the sector boundaries using just navaids, radials, landmarks, etc.

I know that GA groups were strongly opposed to this new scheme, and I can see
why. *The overall impression created is that Phoenix doesn't want any GA
traffic.


You think aircraft are vectored through class B according to sector
boundaries?

What?

Oh wait ... what was *I* thinking when I started to respond to this?

I wasn't.
  #10  
Old February 1st 08, 12:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 373
Default How did KPHX Class B get so screwed up?

On Jan 31, 11:28*am, JB wrote:
On Jan 31, 7:44*am, Mxsmanic wrote:





Shirl writes:
Mxsmanic wrote:
What is happening to the FAA? *The new Class B airspace
at KPHX drives another few nails into the GA coffin.


How so?


It seems to be designed around the assumption that everyone has a moving-map
GPS to show the boundaries of the various sectors. *Anyone who doesn't have
this is going to have a devil of a time figuring out whether or not he's
drifting into Class B. *Since GA aircraft often don't have a moving-map GPS,
they are being strongly encouraged to stay away by the difficulty inherent in
finding the sector boundaries using just navaids, radials, landmarks, etc.


I know that GA groups were strongly opposed to this new scheme, and I can see
why. *The overall impression created is that Phoenix doesn't want any GA
traffic.


Anyone with a relatively cheap GPS will be able to navigate this just
fine. *This is a non-issue.

--Jeff- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Or even without!
 




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