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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"



 
 
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  #91  
Old March 11th 10, 09:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
frank
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Posts: 105
Default "Vanishing American Air Superiority"

On Mar 10, 7:27*pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On Mar 10, 4:03 pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Mar 10, 1:56 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:


...
How would lasers mounted on the AWAC affect the dynamic?...
Ken-


Ever been on an AWACS? They are quite full of people watching
terminals, not much room for megawatt laser power supplies.
jsw


Here's a recent report about mobile LASER capability,http://www.msnbc.msn..com/id/4926840
where we'll be in 5-10 years together with better electronics is hard
to say. It's reminds of a B-17 type turreted gunship using LASER
pulses in place of bullets, it's (reportedly) been demo'd.
Ken


Biggest problem is powering the LASER. Only one that is anywhere close
to working is absolutely huge out at WSMR. I doubt the Airborne LASER
will ever get operational, it'll be just another USAF project for SDI
that dies for cost, not working out of the lab or some other reason.
Add in getting close enough to the target to do the job (assuming that
somebody that wants to launch a missile is going to let you do that is
iffy at best), in all weather 24/7 and being right the first time,
well, way too many ifs for the money.

Lots of good uses for LASERs, weapons are a long way off. No matter
what the PR puff pieces say. And they are a dime a dozen, have been
for going on decades.
  #92  
Old March 13th 10, 11:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
Stephen Harding[_2_]
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Posts: 3
Default "Vanishing American Air Superiority"

Ray O'Hara wrote:

What success in Iraq,? the coming civil war?
and I don't think Obama wants any of the Iraq stink on his resume.
you strike me as the type who approves of the Iraq adventure because it
makes you feel tough.
and if Bsh hadn't blown the budget there we'd have the money to fix or
infrastruture but everybody health insurance and buy a few F-22s


Hardly. I think CBO but perhaps someone else, just reported
on ballooning Federal deficits. They've essentially been
institutionalized and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't
the real contributors to it, although expenses for them have
certainly been costly.

It's entitlements. They're unsustainable as currently defined.
Social security, Medicare and Medicaid especially.

Furthermore, costs for wars eventually become 0. Social
entitlements just get bigger and bigger in costs with no political
leader willing to do something to reign them in. Giving more
for free is how you get elected and stay in office.

We're all to blame: the free givers and the takers.

Health care "reform" is going to be worth several wars of costs
in the long run!


SMH
  #93  
Old March 15th 10, 02:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
[email protected]
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Posts: 10
Default "Vanishing American Air Superiority"

Stephen Harding writes:

Ray O'Hara wrote:

What success in Iraq,? the coming civil war?
and I don't think Obama wants any of the Iraq stink on his resume.
you strike me as the type who approves of the Iraq adventure because
it makes you feel tough.
and if Bsh hadn't blown the budget there we'd have the money to fix
or infrastruture but everybody health insurance and buy a few F-22s


Hardly. I think CBO but perhaps someone else, just reported
on ballooning Federal deficits. They've essentially been
institutionalized and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't
the real contributors to it, although expenses for them have
certainly been costly.

It's entitlements. They're unsustainable as currently defined.
Social security, Medicare and Medicaid especially.

Furthermore, costs for wars eventually become 0. Social
entitlements just get bigger and bigger in costs with no political
leader willing to do something to reign them in. Giving more
for free is how you get elected and stay in office.

We're all to blame: the free givers and the takers.

Health care "reform" is going to be worth several wars of costs
in the long run!


Nice analysis. Ben O'Neill wrote a nice piece on Mises.org on this topic:

http://blog.mises.org/11739/a-society-of-criminals/

Cheers,
Gernot Hassenpflug
  #94  
Old March 15th 10, 06:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
[email protected][_2_]
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Posts: 65
Default "Vanishing American Air Superiority"

One thing that never gets mentioned when "the cost of war" is
discussed is that a lot of that money gets pumped into the economy -
soldiers pay, buying weapons, etc. Lots of jobs, too - imagine the
recent recession without all the defense spending!

I seem to recall that the real solution to the Great Depression was
WW2, not FDR's social engineering.

It does irritate me that as a country we are not willing to impose a
war tax on everbody in the US to pay for our adventures - thank you
gutless politicians.

Kirk
  #95  
Old March 15th 10, 06:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
Jack Linthicum
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Posts: 301
Default "Vanishing American Air Superiority"

On Mar 15, 1:09*pm, "
wrote:
One thing that never gets mentioned when "the cost of war" is
discussed is that a lot of that money gets pumped into the economy -
soldiers pay, buying weapons, etc. *Lots of jobs, too - imagine the
recent recession without all the defense spending!

I seem to recall that the real solution to the Great Depression was
WW2, not FDR's social engineering.

It does irritate me that as a country we are not willing to impose a
war tax on everbody in the US to pay for our adventures - thank you
gutless politicians.

Kirk


Who did you vote for last election? Who will you vote for the next?

Those guys never make it without the votes.
  #96  
Old March 15th 10, 07:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
Ken S. Tucker
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Posts: 442
Default "Vanishing American Air Superiority"

On Mar 15, 10:09 am, "
wrote:
One thing that never gets mentioned when "the cost of war" is
discussed is that a lot of that money gets pumped into the economy -
soldiers pay, buying weapons, etc. Lots of jobs, too - imagine the
recent recession without all the defense spending!

I seem to recall that the real solution to the Great Depression was
WW2, not FDR's social engineering.

It does irritate me that as a country we are not willing to impose a
war tax on everbody in the US to pay for our adventures - thank you
gutless politicians.
Kirk


IMO, (from what I've studied and experienced) the US was by far the
greatest nation in 1960, most other countries were then recovering
from WW2, and the US had lot's of dough from selling armaments,
to the belligrents, also the US was an oil exporter.
Made the best TV's, cars and everything else.
That was 50 years ago, 1/2 century.

Today, I feel the US GNP is measured by how many donuts and
burgers it stuffs in it's citizens, that gets entered into the GNP
figures, usually as a service industry.
If my wife sells you a cake, and your wife sells me a pie that gets
into the GNP bottom line, in Canuckistan the govmonks take 50%
of the pie and cake for munchies, overall taxation being about 1/2,
when it's all figured in.

LOL, if the US taxed fast food they'd be runnning a surplus in 20
minutes, and reduce the big fat obese pigs, that drive up medical
care bills. Downside is Oprah would be unemployed, oh darn.

To the point, what is the best way to employ ambitious men who
want to have a family that are age 20-30?
It might be appropriate to REDUCE the retirement age,
because our society production has become so efficient, maybe
employ more people in science and research, but there's not very
many people who can do that.

Pharoh's had the idea of employing people to build pyramids,
kind of like 'mission to the moon, mars and beyond'.

I think dumping money into ghetto's pays for dope, discipline
first.
Ken
  #97  
Old March 16th 10, 08:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
Jim Wilkins
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Posts: 57
Default "Vanishing American Air Superiority"

On Mar 16, 1:09*pm, "Ray O'Hara" wrote:
...
a DESRON steaming by at high speed would have been enough to swamp the river
barges that didn't founder on their own


The ones I saw on the Neckar had substantial freeboard:
http://www.freefoto.com/images/2026/...erland_web.jpg

jsw
  #98  
Old March 16th 10, 09:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
Jack Linthicum
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Posts: 301
Default "Vanishing American Air Superiority"

On Mar 16, 3:46*pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 16, 1:09*pm, "Ray O'Hara" wrote:

...
a DESRON steaming by at high speed would have been enough to swamp the river
barges that didn't founder on their own


The ones I saw on the Neckar had substantial freeboard:http://www.freefoto.com/images/2026/...and-Barges--Ri...

jsw


50-50, seas would probably get them before any DDs arrived

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bu...C3%B6we%22.jpg
  #99  
Old March 16th 10, 09:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
Keith Willshaw[_1_]
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Posts: 42
Default "Vanishing American Air Superiority"



"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Mar 16, 1:09 pm, "Ray O'Hara" wrote:
...
a DESRON steaming by at high speed would have been enough to swamp the
river
barges that didn't founder on their own


The ones I saw on the Neckar had substantial freeboard:
http://www.freefoto.com/images/2026/...erland_web.jpg

jsw


They are not typical of the barges used on European inland waterways in the
1940's

A better picture is

http://www.historycooperative.org/jo...ges_fig07b.jpg

Keith

  #100  
Old March 16th 10, 10:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,rec.aviation.military.naval
[email protected][_2_]
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Posts: 65
Default "Vanishing American Air Superiority"

On Mar 16, 3:05*pm, Jack Linthicum
wrote:

The ones I saw on the Neckar had substantial freeboard:http://www.freefoto.com/images/2026/...and-Barges--Ri...



Yes, when empty. I've watched many a barge in the Seine and Rhine
rivers and when loaded the deck is almost awash! So depending on what
was put in them, freeboard may or may not have been a problem. One
assumes a moderately intelligent planner at the time would have taken
that into account.

Cheers,

Kirk
 




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