F-15 takeoffs

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 04:54:32 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

Ah, I think I see where the confusion comes in. My "but" refers to them
probably not being low enough (at 50-100 feet AGL, if Bob's estimate is
accurate) to get the extra acceleration benefit from being in ground effect,

Just a confirmation that ground effect stops at about half the span
above the ground. We're talking about a fairly large airplane, not a
fighter, being in ground effect at 50-100'.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

"Turn to kill, not to engage." LCDR Willie Driscoll, USN

No one knows if it was "combat effective", but it was surely "lots of fun",
and therefore a good thing to do.

Jim Thomas

Ed Rasimus wrote:

Jesse wrote:

Bob McKellar wrote:

I was picking up a rental car this morning at my local
airport, where the ANG comes to play in the summer. Out the
window i saw a group of F-15's take off, 6 or 8 or so, one
at a time. Each one lifted off quickly, pulled up the gear,
but then flew the length of the 9,000 ft. runway at I guess
50-100 ft. altitude. At the far end, they pulled up briskly
and headed out to join up.

My question is:

Is there any practical reason to do it this way, or is it
just a way to show off?

In a combat environment (where your airfield might be subject to
attack), it's prudent to get to corner velocity (the min speed at
which max G is available) and into a mutually supporting formation as
quickly as possible. Or they could be exercising a low ceiling join-up
scenario. But, most likely is just a showing off scenario.


I remember when Phantoms use to be based by me.
I used to love them suckers as they ate up every inch of the runway that
they could get,and would often pass over my head at 15 feet or so in
full burner.

Let me suggest that your recollection is a bit foggy. Even at max
gross T/O (58,000 pounds) I never had an F-4 T/O roll exceed 4500
feet. Since a NATO standard runway is 8000 and most USAF runways are
10,000 or more, "them suckers" don't eat up every inch. In a clean
configuration (no tanks, missiles only) the F-4 would use about 2000
feet.

We used to do "tactical departures" out of Incirlik that involved
formation take-off, gear/flaps up and level at 100 feet, remain in A/B
and split to a 2500 foot spread at the end of the runway. Accelerate
to 450 knots (420 was corner) and then cross-turn to reverse
course--still at 100 feet and come back down the runway to depart
southbound to our air/air play area. It was combat effective, lots of
fun and the tower folks loved the show.

Oh, and if the departing phantoms passed over your head at 15 feet or
so in full burner, you'd be deaf, blind and burned today. I think
you're exercising a bit of hyperbole.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038

No one knows if it was "combat effective", but it was surely "lots of fun",
and therefore a good thing to do.

Jim Thomas

Ed Rasimus wrote:

Jesse wrote:

Bob McKellar wrote:

I was picking up a rental car this morning at my local
airport, where the ANG comes to play in the summer. Out the
window i saw a group of F-15's take off, 6 or 8 or so, one
at a time. Each one lifted off quickly, pulled up the gear,
but then flew the length of the 9,000 ft. runway at I guess
50-100 ft. altitude. At the far end, they pulled up briskly
and headed out to join up.

My question is:

Is there any practical reason to do it this way, or is it
just a way to show off?

In a combat environment (where your airfield might be subject to
attack), it's prudent to get to corner velocity (the min speed at
which max G is available) and into a mutually supporting formation as
quickly as possible. Or they could be exercising a low ceiling join-up
scenario. But, most likely is just a showing off scenario.


I remember when Phantoms use to be based by me.
I used to love them suckers as they ate up every inch of the runway that
they could get,and would often pass over my head at 15 feet or so in
full burner.

Let me suggest that your recollection is a bit foggy. Even at max
gross T/O (58,000 pounds) I never had an F-4 T/O roll exceed 4500
feet. Since a NATO standard runway is 8000 and most USAF runways are
10,000 or more, "them suckers" don't eat up every inch. In a clean
configuration (no tanks, missiles only) the F-4 would use about 2000
feet.

We used to do "tactical departures" out of Incirlik that involved
formation take-off, gear/flaps up and level at 100 feet, remain in A/B
and split to a 2500 foot spread at the end of the runway. Accelerate
to 450 knots (420 was corner) and then cross-turn to reverse
course--still at 100 feet and come back down the runway to depart
southbound to our air/air play area. It was combat effective, lots of
fun and the tower folks loved the show.

Oh, and if the departing phantoms passed over your head at 15 feet or
so in full burner, you'd be deaf, blind and burned today. I think
you're exercising a bit of hyperbole.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038