Help With Medical Problem Identified During Medical Exam

Peter Duniho wrote:
"Bill J" wrote in message
...

You DON'T need a second class to 'fly and instruct'. You can do any
instructing with a third class, or lots of instructing with no medical.


Not true. You need a 2nd class medical any time you are being paid to
exercise the privileges of your pilot certificate. If you are not acting as
PIC, you need no medical at all, but if you are, you need a 2nd class
medical (and a commercial pilot certificate, of course).

The point is that instructing is not considered by the feds to be a
commercial activity, notwithstanding the fact that a commercial
certificate is a prerequisite for the CFI. Only a third class medical
is required if the CFI is to be acting as PIC (as when giving primary
instruction). If the 'student' is a certificated pilot and can act as
PIC, then no medical is required for the CFI at all.

Ken Balch
CP-ASMEL-IA, CFI, AGI, IGI, R-AB

Yes, true! I have sent several of my CFI candidates to FSDO and that
very question was part of their oral. Acting as PIC and instructing, say
a primary student, you are not being paid to carry that student as
passenger, just to instruct, so no second class medical needed.

Peter Duniho wrote:
"Bill J" wrote in message
...

You DON'T need a second class to 'fly and instruct'. You can do any
instructing with a third class, or lots of instructing with no medical.


Not true. You need a 2nd class medical any time you are being paid to
exercise the privileges of your pilot certificate. If you are not acting as
PIC, you need no medical at all, but if you are, you need a 2nd class
medical (and a commercial pilot certificate, of course).

Pete

Yes, true! I have sent several of my CFI candidates to the FSDO and that
very question was part of their oral. Acting as PIC and instructing, say
a primary student, you are not being paid to carry that student as
passenger, just to instruct, so no second class medical needed.

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Bill J" wrote in message
...

You DON'T need a second class to 'fly and instruct'. You can do any
instructing with a third class, or lots of instructing with no medical.


Not true. You need a 2nd class medical any time you are being paid to
exercise the privileges of your pilot certificate. If you are not acting as
PIC, you need no medical at all, but if you are, you need a 2nd class
medical (and a commercial pilot certificate, of course).

Pete

Yes, true! I have sent several of my CFI candidates to FSDO and that
very question was part of their oral. Acting as PIC and instructing, say
a primary student, you are not being paid to carry that student as
passenger, just to instruct, so no second class medical needed.

Dave S wrote in message nk.net...
Had you been aware of the limitations beforehand.. you could have
addressed in several possible ways.

1) nondisclosure (lying by omission).. which has a whole nother set of
consequences, if discovered.. but very well may have been the
"reasonable and prudent" course of action by a body of your peers..

A. Keep in mind that unless the FAA/Civil Aeromedical branch decides
to press criminal charges (unlikely), you will be going through the
administrative law system, which does not operate the way you learned
courts worked in civics class. You will be judged by an administrative
law judge, and will enjoy no presumption of innocence. If you end up
in this mess you may well find future certification impossible even if
they change the rules overall, or be fined generously.

B. OTOH I've read that they've actually been taking a more liberal
approach to "catch-up" reporting of old issues that pilots had hidden
on previous applications, the thinking being that it's better to
encourage people to come clean and handle things on the up-and-up. No
guarantee you'll get a medical but at least they probably won't press
charges. However, it would be wise to look at this carefully before
banking on it as an "out."

-cwk.

"Ken Balch" wrote in message
...
[...] Only a third class medical
is required if the CFI is to be acting as PIC (as when giving primary
instruction).

As long as the CFI is being paid to act as PIC (and they are, in the case of
primary training) a commercial certificate is required. If you believe
otherwise, please feel free to quote the portion of the FARs that allows a
pilot to be paid to act as PIC as an instructor without having a commercial
certificate.

If the 'student' is a certificated pilot and can act as
PIC, then no medical is required for the CFI at all.

Yes, this much is true, I think we all understand it, and there's no need to
belabor that point.

Pete

[...] Only a third class medical
is required if the CFI is to be acting as PIC (as when giving primary
instruction).

As long as the CFI is being paid to act as PIC (and they are, in the case of
primary training) a commercial certificate is required. If you believe
otherwise, please feel free to quote the portion of the FARs that allows a
pilot to be paid to act as PIC as an instructor without having a commercial
certificate.

It is correct that a commercial certificate (or ATP) is required to hold a CFI
certificate. But this does not imply a requirement for a second class
medical. The FAA has stated that the CFI is paid to provide instruction, not
act as PIC. From the Part 61 FAQ
(http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/afs800/docs/pt61FAQ.doc):

To be eligible for a flight instructor certificate or rating, § 61.183(c)
requires a person to hold a commercial pilot certificate or airline transport
pilot certificate with the appropriate category and class rating... There is
no
provision for a person to obtain or hold a flight instructor certificate
without a commercial or ATP certificate. But "holding" a commercial or ATP
certificate does not demand a valid medical. Only the performance of given
privileges require a specific class medical per § 61.23(a) (1), (2), or (3).


QUESTION: Do the rules permit a flight instructor to even receive compensation
for instruction when that flight instructor holds only a third class medical,
or maybe does not even hold a current medical certificate at all?

ANSWER: § 61.23(b)(5); Yes, in accordance with § 61.23(b)(5), a flight
instructor who does not hold a medical certificate may give flight and ground
training and be compensated for it. In the preamble of the parts 61 and 141
final rule that was published in the Federal Register on April 4, 1997 (62 FR
16220-16367) when the FAA revised the entire Part 61, the FAA stated the
following in the Federal Register on page 16242 in response to whether a
medical certificate is required for a flight instructor to give ground and
flight training:

" With respect to the holding of medical certificates by a flight instructor,
the FAA has determined that the compensation a certificated flight instructor
receives for flight instruction is not compensation for piloting the aircraft,
but rather is compensation for the instruction. A certificated flight
instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight
crewmember and is receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is
only exercising the privileges of a private pilot. A certificated flight
instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight
crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is not
carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire, nor is he or she,
for compensation or hire, acting as pilot in command of an aircraft. . . . In
this same regard, the FAA has determined that a certificated flight instructor
on board an aircraft for the purpose of providing flight instruction, who does
not act as pilot in command or function as a required flight crewmember, is
not performing or exercising pilot privileges that would require him or her to
possess a valid medical certificate under the FARs."

"Barry" wrote in message ...
[...]
The FAA has stated that the CFI is paid to provide instruction, not
act as PIC. From the Part 61 FAQ
(http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/afs800/docs/pt61FAQ.doc):

If you say so. The CFI's presence in the plane is not "incidental" to the
flight, and they certainly *are* being paid to act as PIC, as well as teach.
Furthermore, the "privileges of the flight instructor certificate" do not
call out getting paid to act as PIC. Only the privileges of the commercial
(and ATC, of course) do.

But, of course, as we all know, if the Part 61 FAQ says it, it must be true.

In any case, it wouldn't be the first time the FAA came up with an absurd
interpretation of their own rules. At least this time it's in the pilot's
favor.

Pete

But, of course, as we all know, if the Part 61 FAQ says it, it must be true.

In any case, it wouldn't be the first time the FAA came up with an absurd
interpretation of their own rules. At least this time it's in the pilot's
favor.

Like you, I disagree with some of what's in the FAQ. The big difference here
is that the explanation of the CFI medical issue was included in the Federal
Register when the new Part 61 was published. So it's not the usual
after-the-fact interpretation. Certainly they could have made this clearer by
restating it in the actual regulation.

"Barry" wrote in message ...
[...] Only a third class medical
is required if the CFI is to be acting as PIC (as when giving primary
instruction).

As long as the CFI is being paid to act as PIC (and they are, in the case of
primary training) a commercial certificate is required.

Of course, the FAA says CFIs are paid to teach and not paid to fly.
That is why we are only required to hold a class 3 medical. If the
student is rated in the airplane we are not required to hold any
medical certificate.