Soaring on unapproved prescription drugs, and conditions, legal??

I just happened to have a random urinalysis and breath alcohol test today.
I get these wonderful whiz quizzes because I fly Part 135 charter. I asked
the technician if mouthwash or the Listerine tabs would register or give a
reading exceeding legal limits. She said maybe initially for the mouthwash,
but not on the second required test which would happen several minutes
later.

She also noted that several over the counter cold medicines contain lots of
alcohol and will give you an alcohol level that would cause someone to be
charged with drunk driving. So there is a completely legal drug that you
should not use if piloting any aircraft (airplane, glider, or ballon). The
package is clearly labeled, but many people ignore the warnings. They do
not believe that these "do not drive or operate machinery" warnings apply to
them. Would the think any differently if the warning said "pilot a glider?"

Here is the crux of the matter. The good judgement or skills of a pilot are
often inhibited by various over the counter and/or prescription drugs. Who
decides when someone is safe to fly? The pilot using the drugs? An
Aviation Medical Examiner? The pilot's personal doctor? An admittedly
confusing FAA rule interpretation as pontificated on by the RAS?

I don't know the answer. I do know that as a professional pilot, and a CFI
in both gliders and airplanes, I would not accept a glider student who had a
disorder that was specifically disqualifying with no chance of waiver for an
airplane pilot. If the condition was waiverable, then the hard decisions
have to be made after careful research and deliberation.

PK


"ADP" wrote in message
...
Boring is not the half of it.
Responding to you Chris is like responding to a wall.

Hmm....

dog·mat·ic [dawg máttik, dog máttik]
or dog·mat·i·cal [dawg máttik'l, dog máttik'l]
adj
1. expressing rigid opinions: prone to expressing strongly held beliefs
and
opinions


While I plead guilty to having strongly held beliefs, I fail to see where
my
replies
are dogmatic. In fact, I can't understand how this thread degenerated
into
making
assumptions about what lawyers and juries might or might not do.

The question was, can you soar while taking unapproved legal drugs?

The answer is that there are no unapproved legal drugs for glider pilots.

Ergo, you can soar while taking any or all legal drugs.

These are facts, not opinions.

Is it wise to fly while taking these drugs? I don't know and it is not
for
me to determine.
It is for the individual glider pilot to determine. Why is this fact so
difficult to comprehend.

Why is individual responsibility so frightening to so many? Perhaps you
are
all
hoping to spill hot coffee into your collective laps and have Mc Donalds
buy
you a new glider.

You state that you know many pilots who fly while incapacitated in some
way.
Does this not make you culpable for keeping this knowledge secret? Suppose
they have an accident?
According to all of the arm-chair lawyers on this group, you would be
crucified by a jury
should they learn that you had such knowledge.

I think we've wrung about all we can out of this thread.

So, in the interests of glider pilots everywhere,
fly safe and may you all find 10k thermals when you look for them.

Allan



"Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message
om...
Interesting, you couch you arguments very reasonably, then turn them
on their ear by going dogmatic. Yes, I know pilots who continue fly
even though they suffer from medical problems that put them and others
at risk. They are intelligent people who suffer the same psychological
problems we all face when presented with questions of mortality.
DENIAL. Not only do I know glider pilots who should give up the sport
for their own sakes as well as others, I know power pilots who seek
out medical examiners who are less than rigorous in pursuing their
responisbilities to the FAA and to the public.

them to make more reasonable, prudent decisions.

How would you know?

Allan

"
I don't know the answer. I do know that as a professional pilot, and a
CFI
in both gliders and airplanes, I would not accept a glider student who had
a
disorder that was specifically disqualifying with no chance of waiver for
an
airplane pilot. If the condition was waiverable, then the hard decisions
have to be made after careful research and deliberation.

PK

I have always wondered why the double standard for medical standards for
aviation and operation of autos. Who wants to pass someone at 55 (really 110)
mph head on 4 feet away in a auto who might not be all there physically.

Know what? The unwaiverable conditions are publically and readily
available. The rest is judgement. We can certainly disagree about what I
think someone (in this case a student pilot) condition is safe to fly. But
that student would be flying on my ticket. My assets are at risk, as well
as my professional reputation. Once someone has their ticket, then they can
substitute their judgement, for then they are responsible and accountable.

PK


"ADP" wrote in message
...
How would you know?

Allan

"
I don't know the answer. I do know that as a professional pilot, and a
CFI
in both gliders and airplanes, I would not accept a glider student who
had
a
disorder that was specifically disqualifying with no chance of waiver
for
an
airplane pilot. If the condition was waiverable, then the hard
decisions
have to be made after careful research and deliberation.

PK

Actually, I was being serious. How would you know whether or
not a prospective glider student might have a medical condition that
you would consider serious enough to refuse to instruct him? Just curious.

I support your right to choose students for whatever reasons. Who would
not?

Allan


"Paul Lynch" wrote in message
news:4aAAc.773$HN5.707@lakeread06...
Know what? The unwaiverable conditions are publically and readily
available. The rest is judgement. We can certainly disagree about what I
think someone (in this case a student pilot) condition is safe to fly.
But
that student would be flying on my ticket. My assets are at risk, as well
as my professional reputation. Once someone has their ticket, then they
can
substitute their judgement, for then they are responsible and accountable.

PK

On 6/18/04 12:38 PM, in article , "ADP"
wrote:

Actually, I was being serious. How would you know whether or
not a prospective glider student might have a medical condition that
you would consider serious enough to refuse to instruct him? Just curious.

I support your right to choose students for whatever reasons. Who would
not?

Allan


"Paul Lynch" wrote in message
news:4aAAc.773$HN5.707@lakeread06...
Know what? The unwaiverable conditions are publically and readily
available. The rest is judgement. We can certainly disagree about what I
think someone (in this case a student pilot) condition is safe to fly.
But
that student would be flying on my ticket. My assets are at risk, as well
as my professional reputation. Once someone has their ticket, then they
can
substitute their judgement, for then they are responsible and accountable.

PK



I don't know what method others use, but I require my new students to get
their student pilot license via a third class medical.

--
Bob
bobgreenblattATmsnDOTcom --fix this before responding

Wow,

No wonder soaring is declining.
I'm beginning to think Lennie was right - for all of the wrong reasons.

Allan

"Bob Greenblatt" wrote in message
...
I don't know what method others use, but I require my new students to get
their student pilot license via a third class medical.

--
Bob

A lot of concern has been expressed here over the possibility of other
people being injured due to the poor judgement of a "self certified" glider
pilot. The poor judgement would be in judging him or herself "fit to fly"
when indeed their medical condition and/or medication had rendered them
unfit and was the casue of an incident.

I am curious to know what the facts are, if they are available. Has anyone
been able to analyze the NTSB aviation accident database or other
information and determine just how big a problem this is? How does it
compare, for example, to errors in pilot decision making during take off or
landing? How much energy should we expend trying to "fix" this potential
medical problem compared to other safety related problems in gliding?

Yes, I know, even one accident is one too many. But from a realist's
standpoint, can we put some perspective on how big a problem this is?


Regards,

-Doug

Just to update, I have not recieved a reply from the FAA's site and I believe
it has been over a week. I would consider asking someone in the club but think
that it would be held against me

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:21:58 -0400, Bob Greenblatt
wrote:

I don't know what method others use, but I require my new students to get
their student pilot license via a third class medical.

For some reason, I find this deeply troubling. I can certainly see
the concern behind it, and it's a personal decision you have all the
right in the world to make, and no one has to employ you as an
instructor if your requirement for a third class medical is something
they choose not to comply with, since it is expressly not an FAA
requirement. So people can accomplish the goal of a certificate to
fly gliders without conforming to your personal requirements that they
acquire a thrid class medical. But for all that, I still find your
approach very upsetting. I wish I could find the words to express my
feelings better about this.