Tow Signals

Us a pretakeoff checklist - just like you did once on your FAA
Checkride!

CBSIFTCBE works - or any checklist that includes "airbrakes (spoilers)
closed and locked."

Left hand in a fist - behind the airbrake handle may alert you that
airbrakes are creeping open. The free video from the Soaring SAfety
Foundation has a good segment on signals and checklists. Order from
www.soaringsafety.org


Our procedure at Marfa, TX USA (developed from the towpilot's point of
view):

Ground crew refuses to hook up towrope until pilot closes and locks
airbrakes.

IF glider pilot wishes to use airbrakes open on takeoff for better
aileron control with water ballast, then ground crew confirms the
towpilot is aware of this.

Glider pilot radios towpilot "canopy and airbrakes closed and locked".

Towpilot (just before takeoff) repeats back to glider pilot "understand
your canopy and airbrakes are closed and locked."

If you do not follow our procedures - we don't launch.

No one gets a tow without a "Marfa Aerotow Briefing". Casual or "know
it all" glider pilots are refused a tow unless our procedures are
completed.

Sorry but as your towpilot we gotta do it my way. This cat has used up
8 of my 9 lives over the past 39 years towing gliders. Many glider
pilots view the tow as a means to an end- "just get me up there" like a
ski lift operator. Do the checklists, follow the procedures, and
remember the "joy of soaring"starts after you release!

Burt CFIG / DPE
Marfa Gliders west Texas
www.flygliders.com

how many instructors coordinate with their tow pilot to give a rudder wag at
200ft AGL..
and then watch what happens.. after appropriate ground school in a previous
lesson of course..

and then.. on another lesson day.. coordinates for a wave off at 300ft?
and a good tow pilot might reduce power with the wave off or maybe start a
gradual descent?

so many times.. I've had the tow pilot pull a close in down wind turn..
briefed of course.. never get above 500ft AGL and then start the wave off..
the student or rated pilot on a flight review does not realize that the
pattern IS NOT NORMAL... what's going on.. and then... ohh.. he wants me to
get off.. and then takes his sweet time doing it.. granted.. if all appears
well.. make sure you are in a safe place to get off tow.. but if things did
not look normal before.. that should have been the earlier clue to be ready
for something.

BT

"CLewis95" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ramy,

I feel it is almost certain more accidents will occur in the confusion
of these important tow signals. I agree with you that it would be best
for the tow pilot to try the radio first if the "situation" allows for
it.

In an effort to help students keeps these signals straight ... I teach
the rudder wag as a visual metaphor(?) for being slapped in the face...
as in "WAKE UP!!!" and I repeat it every time signals are discussed or
practiced in flight. So far so good....

Curt Lewis - 95
Genesis 2
CFIG

On Oct 11, 2:02 pm, "Ramy" wrote:
There had been yet another fatality recently as a result of
misinterpreting the open spoilers signal. True we all passed the
written test and know that wiggeling the rudder means check spoilers
and rocking the wings means release, yet so many students and
experienced pilots alike continiue to confuse this signal and releasing
the tow rope instead, often resulting in accidents. It is not hard to
understand why: The tow plane barely climb, the glider pilot suspects
something must be wrong with the tow plane, then he/she sees the rudder
signal which confirms his thought that something is wrong, then
releases the tow rope in panic, since this is what we were taught to do
if something is wrong with the tow plane.
I think that there is a relatively simple solution for this:
1 - If radio is available (and it always should) - use it instead of
the rudder signal!
2 - If this doesn't doesn't work, the signal should be avoided until
the glider is at least 200
feet, unless of course, the tow plane is in immediate danger.
3 - If the glider pilot sees the tow plane signaling something (wigling
the rudder or rocking the wings)
the FIRST look at the spoilers, then release the tow rope if necessary.
In this case, the pilot will do the correct action regardless of the
signal. I think this is what needs to be taught.

I am not an instructor myself, so this is just my humble opinion...

Ramy

where and when?

"Ramy" wrote in message
oups.com...
There had been yet another fatality recently as a result of
misinterpreting the open spoilers signal. True we all passed the
written test and know that wiggeling the rudder means check spoilers
and rocking the wings means release, yet so many students and
experienced pilots alike continiue to confuse this signal and releasing
the tow rope instead, often resulting in accidents. It is not hard to
understand why: The tow plane barely climb, the glider pilot suspects
something must be wrong with the tow plane, then he/she sees the rudder
signal which confirms his thought that something is wrong, then
releases the tow rope in panic, since this is what we were taught to do
if something is wrong with the tow plane.
I think that there is a relatively simple solution for this:
1 - If radio is available (and it always should) - use it instead of
the rudder signal!
2 - If this doesn't doesn't work, the signal should be avoided until
the glider is at least 200
feet, unless of course, the tow plane is in immediate danger.
3 - If the glider pilot sees the tow plane signaling something (wigling
the rudder or rocking the wings)
the FIRST look at the spoilers, then release the tow rope if necessary.
In this case, the pilot will do the correct action regardless of the
signal. I think this is what needs to be taught.

I am not an instructor myself, so this is just my humble opinion...

Ramy

All good advises from Burt and Tony, but since we are all human, and
human makes human mistakes, wouldn't you all agree that an amendment to
the "wing rocking" signal to first check airbrakes and then release
could save lives? It can take 5-10 seconds before recognizing that the
tow plane is rocking the wings and not just hitting turbulance, which
is plenty of time to take a quick look at the spoiler. This will also
cover the case where the tow pilot gives the wrong signal by mistake,
I'm sure this has happened before.

Ramy


Burt Compton - Marfa wrote:
Us a pretakeoff checklist - just like you did once on your FAA
Checkride!

CBSIFTCBE works - or any checklist that includes "airbrakes (spoilers)
closed and locked."

Left hand in a fist - behind the airbrake handle may alert you that
airbrakes are creeping open. The free video from the Soaring SAfety
Foundation has a good segment on signals and checklists. Order from
www.soaringsafety.org


Our procedure at Marfa, TX USA (developed from the towpilot's point of
view):

Ground crew refuses to hook up towrope until pilot closes and locks
airbrakes.

IF glider pilot wishes to use airbrakes open on takeoff for better
aileron control with water ballast, then ground crew confirms the
towpilot is aware of this.

Glider pilot radios towpilot "canopy and airbrakes closed and locked".

Towpilot (just before takeoff) repeats back to glider pilot "understand
your canopy and airbrakes are closed and locked."

If you do not follow our procedures - we don't launch.

No one gets a tow without a "Marfa Aerotow Briefing". Casual or "know
it all" glider pilots are refused a tow unless our procedures are
completed.

Sorry but as your towpilot we gotta do it my way. This cat has used up
8 of my 9 lives over the past 39 years towing gliders. Many glider
pilots view the tow as a means to an end- "just get me up there" like a
ski lift operator. Do the checklists, follow the procedures, and
remember the "joy of soaring"starts after you release!

Burt CFIG / DPE
Marfa Gliders west Texas
www.flygliders.com

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?e...23X01379&key=1

The instructor passed away after a month or so later and it may not be
directly related to the accident injuries, and of course we should not
jump to any conclusion how and why it happened, but I think we can all
learn from it and try to prevent something similar from happening
again.
I myself always look at my spoilers whenever I feel that the tow plane
is not climbing as well as I would expect, usually happens after I was
towing at sea level for a while...

Ramy


BT wrote:
where and when?

"Ramy" wrote in message
oups.com...
There had been yet another fatality recently as a result of
misinterpreting the open spoilers signal. True we all passed the
written test and know that wiggeling the rudder means check spoilers
and rocking the wings means release, yet so many students and
experienced pilots alike continiue to confuse this signal and releasing
the tow rope instead, often resulting in accidents. It is not hard to
understand why: The tow plane barely climb, the glider pilot suspects
something must be wrong with the tow plane, then he/she sees the rudder
signal which confirms his thought that something is wrong, then
releases the tow rope in panic, since this is what we were taught to do
if something is wrong with the tow plane.
I think that there is a relatively simple solution for this:
1 - If radio is available (and it always should) - use it instead of
the rudder signal!
2 - If this doesn't doesn't work, the signal should be avoided until
the glider is at least 200
feet, unless of course, the tow plane is in immediate danger.
3 - If the glider pilot sees the tow plane signaling something (wigling
the rudder or rocking the wings)
the FIRST look at the spoilers, then release the tow rope if necessary.
In this case, the pilot will do the correct action regardless of the
signal. I think this is what needs to be taught.

I am not an instructor myself, so this is just my humble opinion...

Ramy

My sentiments seem to echo Burts because he taught me to tow.

the towpilot rocks the wings cause you need to get off now, not
because you need to fiddle with a couple handles, pick your nose, and
then get off.
you should be happy that your towpilot gives you the courtesy of
rocking the wings. If I in the towplane am experiencing an engine
problem, first thing is to pull the red handle.
Im not sure what kind of turbulence you are flying in, but the thermals
we have here will not come anywhere close to mimicking a wing rock. my
kind of wing rock is +/- 30 degrees of bank rapidly.

Ramy wrote:
All good advises from Burt and Tony, but since we are all human, and
human makes human mistakes, wouldn't you all agree that an amendment to
the "wing rocking" signal to first check airbrakes and then release
could save lives? It can take 5-10 seconds before recognizing that the
tow plane is rocking the wings and not just hitting turbulance, which
is plenty of time to take a quick look at the spoiler. This will also
cover the case where the tow pilot gives the wrong signal by mistake,
I'm sure this has happened before.

Ramy


Burt Compton - Marfa wrote:
Us a pretakeoff checklist - just like you did once on your FAA
Checkride!

CBSIFTCBE works - or any checklist that includes "airbrakes (spoilers)
closed and locked."

Left hand in a fist - behind the airbrake handle may alert you that
airbrakes are creeping open. The free video from the Soaring SAfety
Foundation has a good segment on signals and checklists. Order from
www.soaringsafety.org


Our procedure at Marfa, TX USA (developed from the towpilot's point of
view):

Ground crew refuses to hook up towrope until pilot closes and locks
airbrakes.

IF glider pilot wishes to use airbrakes open on takeoff for better
aileron control with water ballast, then ground crew confirms the
towpilot is aware of this.

Glider pilot radios towpilot "canopy and airbrakes closed and locked".

Towpilot (just before takeoff) repeats back to glider pilot "understand
your canopy and airbrakes are closed and locked."

If you do not follow our procedures - we don't launch.

No one gets a tow without a "Marfa Aerotow Briefing". Casual or "know
it all" glider pilots are refused a tow unless our procedures are
completed.

Sorry but as your towpilot we gotta do it my way. This cat has used up
8 of my 9 lives over the past 39 years towing gliders. Many glider
pilots view the tow as a means to an end- "just get me up there" like a
ski lift operator. Do the checklists, follow the procedures, and
remember the "joy of soaring"starts after you release!

Burt CFIG / DPE
Marfa Gliders west Texas
www.flygliders.com

Tony wrote:
Im not sure what kind of turbulence you are flying in, but the thermals
we have here will not come anywhere close to mimicking a wing rock. my
kind of wing rock is +/- 30 degrees of bank rapidly.

That's a point I hadn't thought about before. In remembering the few
times I was rocked off in training, I can't tell you if the tow pilot
rocked quickly from 30 degrees to 30 degrees, more slowly doing 45/45,
or whatever.

I *have* seen tow planes upset enough on tow (either wave season towing
out of Minden or summer thermals in the great basin) that I thought
"this could be a rock-off but I better wait and see..."

Back at sea level, I think it's quite a bit more clear.

Jeremy

you get one wing rock..
if I really need you gone and you dealy
you will be holding the rope..

BT

"Tony" wrote in message
ups.com...
My sentiments seem to echo Burts because he taught me to tow.

the towpilot rocks the wings cause you need to get off now, not
because you need to fiddle with a couple handles, pick your nose, and
then get off.
you should be happy that your towpilot gives you the courtesy of
rocking the wings. If I in the towplane am experiencing an engine
problem, first thing is to pull the red handle.
Im not sure what kind of turbulence you are flying in, but the thermals
we have here will not come anywhere close to mimicking a wing rock. my
kind of wing rock is +/- 30 degrees of bank rapidly.

Ramy wrote:
All good advises from Burt and Tony, but since we are all human, and
human makes human mistakes, wouldn't you all agree that an amendment to
the "wing rocking" signal to first check airbrakes and then release
could save lives? It can take 5-10 seconds before recognizing that the
tow plane is rocking the wings and not just hitting turbulance, which
is plenty of time to take a quick look at the spoiler. This will also
cover the case where the tow pilot gives the wrong signal by mistake,
I'm sure this has happened before.

Ramy


Burt Compton - Marfa wrote:
Us a pretakeoff checklist - just like you did once on your FAA
Checkride!

CBSIFTCBE works - or any checklist that includes "airbrakes (spoilers)
closed and locked."

Left hand in a fist - behind the airbrake handle may alert you that
airbrakes are creeping open. The free video from the Soaring SAfety
Foundation has a good segment on signals and checklists. Order from
www.soaringsafety.org


Our procedure at Marfa, TX USA (developed from the towpilot's point of
view):

Ground crew refuses to hook up towrope until pilot closes and locks
airbrakes.

IF glider pilot wishes to use airbrakes open on takeoff for better
aileron control with water ballast, then ground crew confirms the
towpilot is aware of this.

Glider pilot radios towpilot "canopy and airbrakes closed and locked".

Towpilot (just before takeoff) repeats back to glider pilot "understand
your canopy and airbrakes are closed and locked."

If you do not follow our procedures - we don't launch.

No one gets a tow without a "Marfa Aerotow Briefing". Casual or "know
it all" glider pilots are refused a tow unless our procedures are
completed.

Sorry but as your towpilot we gotta do it my way. This cat has used up
8 of my 9 lives over the past 39 years towing gliders. Many glider
pilots view the tow as a means to an end- "just get me up there" like a
ski lift operator. Do the checklists, follow the procedures, and
remember the "joy of soaring"starts after you release!

Burt CFIG / DPE
Marfa Gliders west Texas
www.flygliders.com

Fair enough, all I am saying is that I would recommend a quick glimpse
at the spoiler first (it really shouldn't take that long), so if I get
the rope, at least my spoilers are closed and I have a better chance to
make it back to the airport...

Ramy

BT wrote:
you get one wing rock..
if I really need you gone and you dealy
you will be holding the rope..

BT

"Tony" wrote in message
ups.com...
My sentiments seem to echo Burts because he taught me to tow.

the towpilot rocks the wings cause you need to get off now, not
because you need to fiddle with a couple handles, pick your nose, and
then get off.
you should be happy that your towpilot gives you the courtesy of
rocking the wings. If I in the towplane am experiencing an engine
problem, first thing is to pull the red handle.
Im not sure what kind of turbulence you are flying in, but the thermals
we have here will not come anywhere close to mimicking a wing rock. my
kind of wing rock is +/- 30 degrees of bank rapidly.

Ramy wrote:
All good advises from Burt and Tony, but since we are all human, and
human makes human mistakes, wouldn't you all agree that an amendment to
the "wing rocking" signal to first check airbrakes and then release
could save lives? It can take 5-10 seconds before recognizing that the
tow plane is rocking the wings and not just hitting turbulance, which
is plenty of time to take a quick look at the spoiler. This will also
cover the case where the tow pilot gives the wrong signal by mistake,
I'm sure this has happened before.

Ramy


Burt Compton - Marfa wrote:
Us a pretakeoff checklist - just like you did once on your FAA
Checkride!

CBSIFTCBE works - or any checklist that includes "airbrakes (spoilers)
closed and locked."

Left hand in a fist - behind the airbrake handle may alert you that
airbrakes are creeping open. The free video from the Soaring SAfety
Foundation has a good segment on signals and checklists. Order from
www.soaringsafety.org


Our procedure at Marfa, TX USA (developed from the towpilot's point of
view):

Ground crew refuses to hook up towrope until pilot closes and locks
airbrakes.

IF glider pilot wishes to use airbrakes open on takeoff for better
aileron control with water ballast, then ground crew confirms the
towpilot is aware of this.

Glider pilot radios towpilot "canopy and airbrakes closed and locked".

Towpilot (just before takeoff) repeats back to glider pilot "understand
your canopy and airbrakes are closed and locked."

If you do not follow our procedures - we don't launch.

No one gets a tow without a "Marfa Aerotow Briefing". Casual or "know
it all" glider pilots are refused a tow unless our procedures are
completed.

Sorry but as your towpilot we gotta do it my way. This cat has used up
8 of my 9 lives over the past 39 years towing gliders. Many glider
pilots view the tow as a means to an end- "just get me up there" like a
ski lift operator. Do the checklists, follow the procedures, and
remember the "joy of soaring"starts after you release!

Burt CFIG / DPE
Marfa Gliders west Texas
www.flygliders.com

fair enough ramy..
but if I need you off tow.. its a wing rock and a radio call
if your problem is spoilers.. that I can see.. then its a rudder waggle and
radio call
and most likely.. if we have gotten this far into the air.. there is no need
to feed you the rope..
we don't have hills or powerlines in the way
as long as I can get you back over the top of the airport...
or in a position to make a suitable pattern with your spoilers stuck open

BT
(I do fly both ends of the rope)

"Ramy" wrote in message
ups.com...
Fair enough, all I am saying is that I would recommend a quick glimpse
at the spoiler first (it really shouldn't take that long), so if I get
the rope, at least my spoilers are closed and I have a better chance to
make it back to the airport...

Ramy

BT wrote:
you get one wing rock..
if I really need you gone and you dealy
you will be holding the rope..

BT

"Tony" wrote in message
ups.com...
My sentiments seem to echo Burts because he taught me to tow.

the towpilot rocks the wings cause you need to get off now, not
because you need to fiddle with a couple handles, pick your nose, and
then get off.
you should be happy that your towpilot gives you the courtesy of
rocking the wings. If I in the towplane am experiencing an engine
problem, first thing is to pull the red handle.
Im not sure what kind of turbulence you are flying in, but the thermals
we have here will not come anywhere close to mimicking a wing rock. my
kind of wing rock is +/- 30 degrees of bank rapidly.

Ramy wrote:
All good advises from Burt and Tony, but since we are all human, and
human makes human mistakes, wouldn't you all agree that an amendment
to
the "wing rocking" signal to first check airbrakes and then release
could save lives? It can take 5-10 seconds before recognizing that the
tow plane is rocking the wings and not just hitting turbulance, which
is plenty of time to take a quick look at the spoiler. This will also
cover the case where the tow pilot gives the wrong signal by mistake,
I'm sure this has happened before.

Ramy


Burt Compton - Marfa wrote:
Us a pretakeoff checklist - just like you did once on your FAA
Checkride!

CBSIFTCBE works - or any checklist that includes "airbrakes
(spoilers)
closed and locked."

Left hand in a fist - behind the airbrake handle may alert you that
airbrakes are creeping open. The free video from the Soaring
SAfety
Foundation has a good segment on signals and checklists. Order from
www.soaringsafety.org


Our procedure at Marfa, TX USA (developed from the towpilot's point
of
view):

Ground crew refuses to hook up towrope until pilot closes and locks
airbrakes.

IF glider pilot wishes to use airbrakes open on takeoff for better
aileron control with water ballast, then ground crew confirms the
towpilot is aware of this.

Glider pilot radios towpilot "canopy and airbrakes closed and
locked".

Towpilot (just before takeoff) repeats back to glider pilot
"understand
your canopy and airbrakes are closed and locked."

If you do not follow our procedures - we don't launch.

No one gets a tow without a "Marfa Aerotow Briefing". Casual or
"know
it all" glider pilots are refused a tow unless our procedures are
completed.

Sorry but as your towpilot we gotta do it my way. This cat has used
up
8 of my 9 lives over the past 39 years towing gliders. Many glider
pilots view the tow as a means to an end- "just get me up there"
like a
ski lift operator. Do the checklists, follow the procedures, and
remember the "joy of soaring"starts after you release!

Burt CFIG / DPE
Marfa Gliders west Texas
www.flygliders.com