Tow Signals

Bummer, i was waiting for something like:
"towplane and glider took forever to get airborne, but neither aborted
or released due to inadequate training, and the combination flew
unscathed underneath the power lines and climbed away as if nothing had
happened"

now THAT wouldve been exciting!

Ramy wrote:
We had an interesting incident few years ago in an aero retrieve
attempt. They attempted a tow on a slightly up hill and relatively
short dirt runway (should have towed the other way) with power lines at
the end of the runway. The tow plane could not get off the ground on
time and aborted the takeoff, the glider was already in the air, could
not stop before the tow plane and could not land in front of the tow
plane due to the power lines. Luckily he already had enough energy to
zoom up and executed a perfect 180 and landed safely on the nearby
field.

Ramy

Chris Reed wrote:
I had exactly this happen to me, but on a runway too narrow to land
either side. It's remarkable how fast the mind can work, as I had time
to think:

1. Can I land and stop before hitting tug - no.

2. Can I go over the top of tug - no.

3. So it's go to the left (marginally more room), which leaves me
directly in line for the fuel bowser - worry about that once I'm past
the tug.

I flew 3, but there was standing crop to the left which I caught with
the wingtip. Result - a perfect 180 in mid-air and a backwards landing
with no damage to aircraft or crew. Interestingly, there's almost no
ground run on a backwards landing, so we never got near the fuel bowser.

Not sure I could repeat this successfully, and would rather not have to
attempt it.


Bill Daniels wrote:
What about tow plane aborts on the runway?

I had a tug pilot shut down and brake sharply to a stop right on the
centerline just after I had lifted off. It took some trick flying to avoid
hitting him. I thought this was one in a million until I saw it happen to
another glider pilot only a year later. In my case the tuggie suddenly
decided he didn't want to fly right then. In the other case, the tuggie
left the fuel cap off the Pawnee and gas was streaming onto the canopy.

Part of the "Emergency" pre-takeoff planning has to be about where to go if
the tug slams on the brakes. I'd think the tuggie should move as far to the
left as possible - even departing the runway to the left during an abort if
that is possible. AFAIK, runway aborts aren't addresed in tow pilot
training.

Bill Daniels


"BT" wrote in message
news:LhAXg.4029$gM1.2379@fed1read12...

Papa3.. I like your third one..

now another... how many instructors pull the rope at about 20-30ft AGL..
just as the climb starts.. and watch the student try to go every which way
but straight ahead and land. Remember the mantra.. below 200ft land
straight ahead.

We have a long 3500ft runway, we stage about 500ft down the runway, the
tow is normally airborn with 1500ft remaining.. we have 600ft of gravel
beyond the paved portion, that is 2100ft to land on from 40ft AGL. I can
pull the rope at 20-40ft at the 1500ft remaining marker.. (cross taxi
way).. a good student will get it down and I'll have to coax him to let it
roll to the end so we can just turn around and tow out the opposite
direction. I've had other students looking for a place to go and I've had
to take over.

Tow pilot may be briefed ahead.. but we have a standing rule.. if the tow
is airborne and feels a release.. the tow keeps going.. do not try to
land... your blocking the runway for the glider.. we also have about 150ft
of good landable grading beside the runway, whole length.

BT

"Papa3" wrote in message
roups.com...

BT wrote:

how many instructors coordinate with their tow pilot to give a rudder
wag at
200ft AGL..
and then watch what happens.. after appropriate ground school in a
previous
lesson of course..

and then.. on another lesson day.. coordinates for a wave off at 300ft?
and a good tow pilot might reduce power with the wave off or maybe start
a
gradual descent?

so many times.. I've had the tow pilot pull a close in down wind turn..
briefed of course.. never get above 500ft AGL and then start the wave
off..
the student or rated pilot on a flight review does not realize that the
pattern IS NOT NORMAL... what's going on.. and then... ohh.. he wants me
to
get off.. and then takes his sweet time doing it.. granted.. if all
appears
well.. make sure you are in a safe place to get off tow.. but if things
did
not look normal before.. that should have been the earlier clue to be
ready
for something.

BT

BT,

I couldn't agree with you more - many instructors let students get all
the way to their rating without the above sorts of "dirty tricks".
This is unacceptable.

Three that I always do:

- Towpilot begins to slowly throttle back (simulating loss of power
due to any number of reasons) at a pre-arranged altitude of about
500-700 AGL without a waveoff. In real-life, this is exactly what
might happen in the event of a non-catastrophic towplane problem while
the towpilot tries to figure out "what the ***". What does the
student do? Most will watch as the inevitable slack line develops and
we begin to transition from positive rate of climb to descent. About
20% figure out something is wrong and release while they still have
time to make a reasonable pattern and landing. When towpilot
finally gives the wave off MOST of the remainder are already on a high
enough alert level that they release immediately. A few freeze.

- Towpilot gives the rudder waggle at altitude (always above a safe
glide to the airport). Most do the right thing. A few either a)
release or b) ask me "what's he doing."

- This last one is "fun", though it isn't really a tow signal per se.
I admit that it's a hassle, but it can be a great learning tool. I
will have the towpilot plan on a particularly slow acceleration and a
marginal liftoff well down the field. All the while, I'll be asking
the student "does this feel right"? I will then pull the release (if
student hasn't already) and land straight ahead. The discussion that
ensues is along the lines of : a) Hey, it's your neck on the line.
b) Don't trust the towpilot blindly - maybe he's got a problem and has
forgotten about you. c) The trees at the end of the runway won't care
whose fault it was when you impact them 20 feet below the tops.
Caution: This requires careful coordination and briefing with the
towpilot, an ample length of remaining runway, coordination with other
traffic, etc. etc. I'll admit that not every student of mine has been
through this, though we do have the discussion.

Anyway, I think a lot of people get through training without these and
other dirty tricks, and it's a shame.

Erik Mann
LS8-18 (P3)

SAM 303a wrote:
Had one of these 6 weeks ago.
Both of us 15-20' off the ground with 1500+ ft of runway ahead and the
window popped open on the Pawnee. He shut down......

What am I missing? The window pops open on a Pawnee, big deal - keep going.

Tony V. LS6-b "6N"

It struck me how similar this discussion is to the
use of transponders. Tow signals were all based upon
the fact that gliders did not have radios. Only through
wing waggles, wing rockings, rudder waggles and rudder
induced yawing could the glider pilot and tow pilot
communicate. With a radio, we can talk. The tow pilot
can start each tow with, 'DDS, confirm that your canopy
is locked and spoilers are closed.' A spoilers open
on tow situation could be corrected by the tow pilot
with, 'DDS, your spoilers are open, close your spoilers!'

A potential gear up landing could be avoided by someone
on the ground using the radio to say, 'glider on final,
your gear is not down.'

A canopy open situation could possibly be improved
by someone on the radio talking to the pilot and reminding
them to fly the plane.

I really think it is time for the glider community
to move into the 21st century and use radios. Current
radios and batteries leave no reason to not have them
installed and operating. We use the tow signals so
infrequently that they are not part of your core flying
skills. I know that when I have had high stress flying
situations, my rational brain has shut down. Under
high stress I am in survival mode. I am pretty sure
that the human voice over a radio has a much better
chance of getting the stressed pilot's attention than
all the rudder wagging and wing rocking the tow pilot
can muster.

Now I feel better.

Guy Acheson 'DDS' and '59'

If I'm in the air and the window pops open on my Pawnee.. I'm going to keep
flying.. get the glider to a safe altitude and then return. Yes the POH says
not to fly with the window open, keep the speed down.
We know it will fly with the window open.

There have been too many power accidents from pilots forgetting to fly and
worried about an open window or door.. and something worse happens.

BT

"SAM 303a" brentDAHTsullivanATgmailDAHTcom wrote in message
...
Had one of these 6 weeks ago.
Both of us 15-20' off the ground with 1500+ ft of runway ahead and the
window popped open on the Pawnee. He shut down, angled left; I released,
angled a bit right and banged into a thermal that bounced me to about 80',
providing a little short field landing practice.
Here's the stupid part--my hand was on the divebrakes and I was about to
deploy them, but when the ship started rising I took my hand off!
Something in me said "dive brakes aren't used in thermals". I should have
been on the dive brakes immediately and never gotten as high as I did. It
wasn't a big deal, I didn't even use all of the glide slope control my
dear Mosquito offers. I did behave in a way I wouldn't have
predicted--that got my attention.

"Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote in message
. ..
What about tow plane aborts on the runway?

I had a tug pilot shut down and brake sharply to a stop right on the
centerline just after I had lifted off. It took some trick flying to
avoid hitting him. I thought this was one in a million until I saw it
happen to another glider pilot only a year later. In my case the tuggie
suddenly decided he didn't want to fly right then. In the other case,
the tuggie left the fuel cap off the Pawnee and gas was streaming onto
the canopy.

Part of the "Emergency" pre-takeoff planning has to be about where to go
if the tug slams on the brakes. I'd think the tuggie should move as far
to the left as possible - even departing the runway to the left during an
abort if that is possible. AFAIK, runway aborts aren't addresed in tow
pilot training.

Bill Daniels


"BT" wrote in message
news:LhAXg.4029$gM1.2379@fed1read12...
Papa3.. I like your third one..

now another... how many instructors pull the rope at about 20-30ft AGL..
just as the climb starts.. and watch the student try to go every which
way but straight ahead and land. Remember the mantra.. below 200ft land
straight ahead.

We have a long 3500ft runway, we stage about 500ft down the runway, the
tow is normally airborn with 1500ft remaining.. we have 600ft of gravel
beyond the paved portion, that is 2100ft to land on from 40ft AGL. I can
pull the rope at 20-40ft at the 1500ft remaining marker.. (cross taxi
way).. a good student will get it down and I'll have to coax him to let
it roll to the end so we can just turn around and tow out the opposite
direction. I've had other students looking for a place to go and I've
had to take over.

Tow pilot may be briefed ahead.. but we have a standing rule.. if the
tow is airborne and feels a release.. the tow keeps going.. do not try
to land... your blocking the runway for the glider.. we also have about
150ft of good landable grading beside the runway, whole length.

BT

"Papa3" wrote in message
ups.com...

BT wrote:
how many instructors coordinate with their tow pilot to give a rudder
wag at
200ft AGL..
and then watch what happens.. after appropriate ground school in a
previous
lesson of course..

and then.. on another lesson day.. coordinates for a wave off at
300ft?
and a good tow pilot might reduce power with the wave off or maybe
start a
gradual descent?

so many times.. I've had the tow pilot pull a close in down wind
turn..
briefed of course.. never get above 500ft AGL and then start the wave
off..
the student or rated pilot on a flight review does not realize that
the
pattern IS NOT NORMAL... what's going on.. and then... ohh.. he wants
me to
get off.. and then takes his sweet time doing it.. granted.. if all
appears
well.. make sure you are in a safe place to get off tow.. but if
things did
not look normal before.. that should have been the earlier clue to be
ready
for something.

BT

BT,

I couldn't agree with you more - many instructors let students get all
the way to their rating without the above sorts of "dirty tricks".
This is unacceptable.

Three that I always do:

- Towpilot begins to slowly throttle back (simulating loss of power
due to any number of reasons) at a pre-arranged altitude of about
500-700 AGL without a waveoff. In real-life, this is exactly what
might happen in the event of a non-catastrophic towplane problem while
the towpilot tries to figure out "what the ***". What does the
student do? Most will watch as the inevitable slack line develops and
we begin to transition from positive rate of climb to descent. About
20% figure out something is wrong and release while they still have
time to make a reasonable pattern and landing. When towpilot
finally gives the wave off MOST of the remainder are already on a high
enough alert level that they release immediately. A few freeze.

- Towpilot gives the rudder waggle at altitude (always above a safe
glide to the airport). Most do the right thing. A few either a)
release or b) ask me "what's he doing."

- This last one is "fun", though it isn't really a tow signal per se.
I admit that it's a hassle, but it can be a great learning tool. I
will have the towpilot plan on a particularly slow acceleration and a
marginal liftoff well down the field. All the while, I'll be asking
the student "does this feel right"? I will then pull the release (if
student hasn't already) and land straight ahead. The discussion that
ensues is along the lines of : a) Hey, it's your neck on the line.
b) Don't trust the towpilot blindly - maybe he's got a problem and has
forgotten about you. c) The trees at the end of the runway won't care
whose fault it was when you impact them 20 feet below the tops.
Caution: This requires careful coordination and briefing with the
towpilot, an ample length of remaining runway, coordination with other
traffic, etc. etc. I'll admit that not every student of mine has been
through this, though we do have the discussion.

Anyway, I think a lot of people get through training without these and
other dirty tricks, and it's a shame.

Erik Mann
LS8-18 (P3)

There is something to be said for power.. POWER!!
like a 250HP Pawnee..
BT

"BB" wrote in message
ups.com...
Our club has evolved what seems to me a very sensible strategy for
dealing with spoilers open and similar problems.

If the towpilot is not in trouble -- if the towplane is climbing and at
a safe altitude and position -- he/she will not wag the tail. If the
glider pilot's brain has faded enough that the spoilers are out, it's
clear the pilot is having reduced situational awareness, so adding the
task of interpreting a seldom-used emergency signal does risk being
misinterpreted. A low-altitude release with spoilers out will be
catastrophic, and if the tow is still safe, why risk it.

Instead, the tow pilot will try to raise the pilot on the radio. The
tow pilot will keep climbing, keep trying by radio, and bring the
glider directly over the field before trying a rudder waggle. All this
is in a written tow procedures document that eveyrone has to read and
is reviewed at checkouts and flight reviews.

As I think about it, it might be even better to have the tow pilot
level out at 1,800' over the field until the problem is resolved, to
help ensure the glider will not release with the spoilers still out and
the problem undiagnosed.

This does not mean we ignore standard signals, so don't start flaming
on this. They are there, and pilots and towpilots are all expected to
know them and use them if necessary. If the tow pilot is in any doubt
about the safety of continuing the tow with spoiler out, they can wag
to their hearts' content or take whatever other action is appropriate.
And we also brief wing runners to look for spoilers and canopies, and
pilots to do checklists, etc. etc.

John Cochrane BB

Guy Acheson wrote:
I really think it is time for the glider community
to move into the 21st century and use radios.

Seems like I get almost as many "say again" as actual replies to a
simple air to air chatter question. And then there's getting stepped
on, etc... I agree a radio call in conjunction with a visual signal is
a good idea. There are literally an infinite number of ways to screw
things up between the radio check and the "must work" transmission a
few minutes later.

-Tom

I have never flown a Pawnee and I'm not a tow pilot.
Some of our tow pilots say the plane is so noisy that
the radio is practically useless except to transmit.
They have good headsets..

At 03:12 14 October 2006, 5z wrote:

Guy Acheson wrote:
I really think it is time for the glider community
to move into the 21st century and use radios.

Seems like I get almost as many 'say again' as actual
replies to a
simple air to air chatter question. And then there's
getting stepped
on, etc... I agree a radio call in conjunction with
a visual signal is
a good idea. There are literally an infinite number
of ways to screw
things up between the radio check and the 'must work'
transmission a
few minutes later.

-Tom

I am sorry, but to say a Pawnee is too noisy for a
tow pilot to hear the radio, with headphones, is just
too much of a stretch. That is just a crappy installation
or very poor headphones. The glider community is too
full of just too many excuses for not using a radio.
'The transmission is poor.' ' Engine noise too great.'
' Wind noise too much.' 'English is a second language.'
Come on! Radios should be a standard piece of equipment
and they should work. Tow signals are a valuable back-up
to radio communication, but they should only be a back-up...not
an excuse. Aviation is a serious business, not a casual
walk in the park. People die in aviation and a great
number of incidents in glider aviation could be avoided
with better, more direct communication.

Anyway, that is my opinion.

Guy Acheson 'DDS' and '59'

Guy Acheson wrote:
I am sorry, but to say a Pawnee is too noisy for a
tow pilot to hear the radio, with headphones, is just
too much of a stretch. That is just a crappy installation
or very poor headphones. The glider community is too
full of just too many excuses for not using a radio.
'The transmission is poor.' ' Engine noise too great.'
' Wind noise too much.' 'English is a second language.'
Come on! Radios should be a standard piece of equipment
and they should work. Tow signals are a valuable back-up
to radio communication, but they should only be a back-up...not
an excuse. Aviation is a serious business, not a casual
walk in the park. People die in aviation and a great
number of incidents in glider aviation could be avoided
with better, more direct communication.

Anyway, that is my opinion.

Guy Acheson 'DDS' and '59'



Too many excuses by far.

We run a "vintage glider" club by most standards. My 1970 Std Cirrus was the hot
ship until we got a 1971 Kestrel.

That said - they all have working radios. From the 1956 Bergfalke II/55 to the
Kestrel. Soem of the radios are as old and low performance as what they are
bolted into, butthey all work.

Club rule is - no launch is allowed without the pilot in the glider making a
successful call to ground, on the appropriate frequeny. No excuses, no fuss. Use
a handheld if you must.

Personally, I found fitting a boom microphone and PTT switch to my steam era
King Kx195 radio was an outstanding investment. Next move is to get a decent 760
channel into the panel. Not that the King is a bad radio - it is powerful and
clear. But the amount of battery power it consumes is cause for concern on a
long cross country...

So, my advise is to stop making excuses and fit a halfway decent radio. Your
life could depend on it soem day.

Guy Acheson wrote:
With a radio, we can talk. The tow pilot
can start each tow with, 'DDS, confirm that your canopy
is locked and spoilers are closed.'


This may work at a site that operates only one tow plane but it is a
safety hazard when multiple tow operations are in progress as at a
regional or national contest. The frequency should be kept clear so it
can be used to communicate abnormal or emergency situations.

The required procedure using SSA approved signals is - glider about to
launch confirm that you have completed your pre-takeoff checks and are
ready to launch by wagging your rudder. No radio use required.


Andy