Japanese Army Navy

Well, it was BuAer that decided, of course. But BuAer's first engine
for the Zero was the Mitsubishi Zuisei 13. It had so many problems
that after the first two prototypes the Nakajima Sakae 12 was
substituted for it. The decision was made on May 1, 1939, according to
MIkesh's book on the Zero. The first flight had been a month earlier.

So only the first two Zeros were A6M Model 11. The first number stands
for the engine, so the third prototype and the production models were
A6M Model 21. (As is so often the case with Japanese aircraft, you can
baffle folks even further by calling them A6M1 and A6M2.)

These prototypes went into service with the Japanese navy. Can you
imagine that happening today?

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:02:29 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

Cub Driver wrote:

The Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa 'oscar' was very similar in shape, and also used
the same engines

In fairness to the army plane, the Hayabusa came first. The army
turned it down because of its perceived weaknesses in dogfighting.

Then the Zero was having trouble meeting specifications. So Mitsubishi
ditched its engine and borrowed the one Nakajima had developed for the
Hayabusa, and which of course was available since the Ki-43 wasn't
going into production.

Dan, I recall reading an account by IIRR Horikoshi, who said that it was strongly
implied to them by the navy that they should use the Nakajima engine, if they
wanted to see the a/c put in production. Mitsubishi was planning to use their
own (slightly less powerful, but IIRR lighter) engine in the a/c, but the
Japanese had a military-industrial-political complex too. It didn't have
anything to do with a lack of performance according to him. I'll try and find
the book and refresh my memory.

Guy

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at http://www.danford.net/index.htm
Vietnam | Flying Tigers | Pacific War | Brewster Buffalo | Piper Cub

A small number of the Army's Type 4 Heavy Bomber 'Hiryu' was used by
the Navy under the name 'Yasukuni'.

That's the equivalent of naming an aircraft Arlington National
Cemetery! Not a very cheerful prospect for the crew.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at http://www.danford.net/index.htm
Vietnam | Flying Tigers | Pacific War | Brewster Buffalo | Piper Cub

Cub Driver wrote:

Well, it was BuAer that decided, of course. But BuAer's first engine
for the Zero was the Mitsubishi Zuisei 13. It had so many problems
that after the first two prototypes the Nakajima Sakae 12 was
substituted for it. The decision was made on May 1, 1939, according to
MIkesh's book on the Zero. The first flight had been a month earlier.

So only the first two Zeros were A6M Model 11.

Should read A6M1 Model 11.

The first number stands
for the engine, so the third prototype and the production models were
A6M Model 21.

According to my source (see below), they were A6M2 Model 11s. The engine doesn't
necessarily determine a change in "M" number: The A6M5 used the Sakae 21, the same as
the A6M3 Model 32 and 22.

(As is so often the case with Japanese aircraft, you can
baffle folks even further by calling them A6M1 and A6M2.)

The only source I have handy, Caidin's Ballantine Book "Zero Fighter" (so take it
FWIW), says that they built 64 A6M2 Model 11s. The Model 21, unlike the Model 11, had
folding tips. The Model 11 was the version used in China in 1940, and according to
him the last one rolled off the line in November 1940.

Guy

Wasn't it suicidal anyway?
A big, fat bomber with an underslung torpedo flying a steady course...
An excellent target for AA fire in late 1944.



Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
A small number of the Army's Type 4 Heavy Bomber 'Hiryu' was used by
the Navy under the name 'Yasukuni'.

That's the equivalent of naming an aircraft Arlington National
Cemetery! Not a very cheerful prospect for the crew.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at http://www.danford.net/index.htm
Vietnam | Flying Tigers | Pacific War | Brewster Buffalo | Piper Cub

FWIW the Japanese Army did have its own Navy - they even designed,
built, and operated submarines, albeit for supply, not combat. No
torpedos. Yu1 and Yu1001 classes. J-Army also had 28 LST-type ships.
Walt BJ

Cub Driver writes:

A small number of the Army's Type 4 Heavy Bomber 'Hiryu' was used by
the Navy under the name 'Yasukuni'.

That's the equivalent of naming an aircraft Arlington National
Cemetery! Not a very cheerful prospect for the crew.

I don't know, Yasukuni is a well-established name in Japanese history
and shinto, and the fact that one shrine is famous in its association
does not give it the same connotations as the ANC (which for me, as a
South African, has other associations too!). Yasukuni basically means
peaceful country, and it is a noble name. Japanese people nowadays
might associate Yasukuni-jinja with war criminals, but just yasukuni
is often found in literature, and in religious and historical texts.

--
G Hassenpflug * IJN & JMSDF equipment/history fan