Why is Soaring declining

"John H. Campbell" wrote in message ...
OK, so I was flying hang gliders at the time and sometimes bought Soaring
at
the newsstand. (You can't do that anymore.)

Just like I used to buy Hang Gliding at newstands. We were told by the SSA
executive 10 years ago that newstand placement of Soaring was no longer
cost-effective for magazine supplier businesses (for such a small press run
and niche market). Is this still the case? Have the new SSA Directors, PR
Committees, and Staff looked into that?

In my area clubs are having a hard time due to decreasing membership.
How about this: Offer Soaring to clubs and FBO's at a volume discount
(perhaps this is available now) for resale at a small profit.
Enterprising clubs and FBO's could place Soaring at different friendly
venues (General Aviation, parallel sports, and ??) on a consignement
basis with an insert promoting the local club/FBO (perhaps a discount
on first ride or membership?) The 'profits' would probably only barely
cover the losses due to pilfered magazines but the exposure and
advertising might be worth it. Is anyone doing this now? Does it work?

HAS ANYONE ATTEMPTED TO MARKET SOARING TO GENERAL AVIATION BUSINESSES
SUCH AS AIRCRAFT SPRUCE OR SPORTY'S? Is their clientelle enough of a
prospective market for us to even attempt to do so?

Hank Nixon wrote:

Tony Verhulst wrote in message ...

I was very dissapointed with an article in the latest _Soaring_
magazine. It was about the SSA membership decline and all about
attracting SSA *members* and retaining SSA *members* - nothing about
soaring. I humbly suggest that if the SSA focused more on promoting
soaring, much of the membership decline would be taken care of.

Tony V.



Guess we all read things differently.
My read is that we all need to introduce folks we know to the sport.
In doing so, we have 12000 or so direct sales people.
This will result in growing the sport, and helping to grow the society.

Take a friend soaring- try direct marketing.
UH
No there's a sensible thing to say - and it works too.
I have introduced many friends, acquaintances and work colleagues to soaring. So
far so good, our club is growing.

It helps to have an obsessive personality - soaring is never far from any topic
with me around. So far I have recruited an average of one new club member per
year - this year looks like it might be three... Over achieving here ;-)

(JohnD) wrote in message . com...

In my area clubs are having a hard time due to decreasing membership.

I can offer a half dozen things that I've never seen tried
consistantly, and they don't depend on waiting for any national
organization to move, or depend on a commercial concern that is more
interested in their own survival.

Get permission first, go to as many parks as you can that you know
people visit, set up a SIMPLE glider, not something that has a panel
like a 747. If there's another activity happening at the time, so
much the better, but set up someplace where you won't interfere with
that activity. You don't want to try to intercept everyone, only be
where you can be seen and heard by people that had enough interest to
come and look.

You don't want to send the club, (or commercial operation's) hotshot,
or the guy that won't fly anything below (insert L/D here), send an
average pilot, armed with enough paperwork to be able to answer most
of the questions. Send two of them, easier to put the plane together,
and you might have an audience while you're doing it. (2-33 or Lark,
bad choice, small committee needed.)

Sure, someone's going to have to give up part of a day, or a day, but
the next week it will be someone else's turn to do the same thing. If
the first time gives no results, keep trying, once is usually not
enough. I've been doing it for thirteen years in amateur astronomy,
but we've been having a slow growth of people that come back every
week now. We've also had a slow growth of people that come back with
telescopes of their own, ("Can you help me with this?")

By being consistant, and by being there, we bring in converts, but
then we also realize that at night, there isn't a lot of competition
for the audience. We also work with the park admin, and have posters
all over the place saying when and where we are and at what time.
(Usually sunset.) You also have to tie in with an activity they
understand, such as "Hmmm, birdwatchers, constellations that are named
after birds," (Corvus, Aquila, Cygnus) and do anything you can to grab
their interest, if only for a few minutes. We've even been known to
capitalize on the mysticism practiced by Tycho or the dedication of
Keppler, depending on if we're talking to serious students or UFO
freaks. You have to be flexible, have some knowledge of what they're
interested in, although just enough to know a little on the subject,
and above all, be willing to answer question after question, even
though it may seem like you just answered the same thing fifteen
seconds ago. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, YMCA, School groups, we welcome
them all, fully knowing that gaining even one is unlikely, but we
don't know when that one will show up. LIke soaring, we can't afford
to miss that one.

In the thirteen years, we've seen our number grow from just the two of
us to the seven or eight that we can count on seeing on a halfway
consistant basis. That's what two can do, think of what could be done
with a dozen clubs doing the same thing, and I'm not a member of any
club. As we get people from all over, we don't know how many looked
up the local astronomy club when they got home, but it's nice to think
that maybe we did make a difference.

If anyone can tell me why it wouldn't work with soaring, I'd be
interested in hearing it.

This sounds like an excellent idea. Perhaps we could
coordinate nationally for one specific Saturday or
Sunday. That might get some national news attention.At 02:18 19 April 2004, Lennie The Lurker (JohnD) wrote in message news:... In my area clubs are having a hard time due to decreasing
membership.I can offer a half dozen things that I've never seen
triedconsistantly, and they don't depend on waiting for
any nationalorganization to move, or depend on a commercial concern
that is moreinterested in their own survival.Get permission first, go to as many parks as you can
that you knowpeople visit, set up a SIMPLE glider, not something
that has a panellike a 747. If there's another activity happening
at the time, somuch the better, but set up someplace where you won't
interfere withthat activity. You don't want to try to intercept
everyone, only bewhere you can be seen and heard by people that had
enough interest to come and look.You don't want to send the club, (or commercial operation's)
hotshot,or the guy that won't fly anything below (insert L/D
here), send anaverage pilot, armed with enough paperwork to be able
to answer mostof the questions. Send two of them, easier to put
the plane together,and you might have an audience while you're doing it.
(2-33 or Lark,bad choice, small committee needed.)Sure, someone's going to have to give up part of a
day, or a day, butthe next week it will be someone else's turn to do
the same thing. Ifthe first time gives no results, keep trying, once
is usually notenough. I've been doing it for thirteen years in amateur
astronomy,but we've been having a slow growth of people that
come back everyweek now. We've also had a slow growth of people that
come back withtelescopes of their own, ('Can you help me with this?')By being consistant, and by being there, we bring in
converts, butthen we also realize that at night, there isn't a lot
of competitionfor the audience. We also work with the park admin,
and have postersall over the place saying when and where we are and
at what time. (Usually sunset.) You also have to tie in with an
activity theyunderstand, such as 'Hmmm, birdwatchers, constellations
that are namedafter birds,' (Corvus, Aquila, Cygnus) and do anything
you can to grabtheir interest, if only for a few minutes. We've even
been known tocapitalize on the mysticism practiced by Tycho or the
dedication ofKeppler, depending on if we're talking to serious students
or UFOfreaks. You have to be flexible, have some knowledge
of what they'reinterested in, although just enough to know a little
on the subject,and above all, be willing to answer question after
question, eventhough it may seem like you just answered the same
thing fifteenseconds ago. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, YMCA, School
groups, we welcomethem all, fully knowing that gaining even one is unlikely,
but wedon't know when that one will show up. LIke soaring,
we can't affordto miss that one.In the thirteen years, we've seen our number grow from
just the two ofus to the seven or eight that we can count on seeing
on a halfwayconsistant basis. That's what two can do, think of
what could be donewith a dozen clubs doing the same thing, and I'm not
a member of anyclub. As we get people from all over, we don't know
how many lookedup the local astronomy club when they got home, but
it's nice to thinkthat maybe we did make a difference.If anyone can tell me why it wouldn't work with soaring,
I'd beinterested in hearing it.

(JohnD) wrote in message . com...
HAS ANYONE ATTEMPTED TO MARKET SOARING TO GENERAL AVIATION BUSINESSES
SUCH AS AIRCRAFT SPRUCE OR SPORTY'S? Is their clientelle enough of a
prospective market for us to even attempt to do so?

The SSA had some promotion going on with Sporty's a while back. I
remember reading that it was a total flop.

Don Johnstone wrote in message ...
I agree with much of what you say Lennie but the reality
is that the eogotists and the competion pilots are
just as important to the sport as the people who fly
the club hack.

Don, it took several people nearly three months before I decided to
even take an introductory ride, and that was more to see if I was
going to have problems with my sinus, something I've had as long as I
can remember. It took one of the mouths that couldn't shut exactly
three weeks to give me an indication that the remarks and derision of
the plane, and where it would take me, would never stop. A lot of
good people did what they could to counteract the poison tongues, but
once that first scratch is made in the enthusiasm, it's only a matter
of time before it crumbles. The big ego doesn't see him or herself as
they are, and it seems to them, or so I imagine, that they're only
offering "sage advice". "Sage advice" would have been for them to
keep their mouths shut.

As far as the gliders go, I had my 1-26 and was happy with it, I was
even happy with it after I had flown it.

It makes no difference really, three people worked very hard to get me
to try it, two more joined them in trying to counteract the badmouth,
only to meet with failure because of a small number of people with fat
heads and huge egos. The end result, Egotist, one, soaring, zero.
Not the total cause, but enough that I decided the expense I was
paying wasn't worth it. I can stay at home and be ignored, which sure
beats going to the field and being irritated.

One of the "Michaels", don't remember which, once declared me as a
"total loss". Guess he was right, but I'm still the one that came out
on top.

Jeff Dorwart wrote in message ...
This sounds like an excellent idea. Perhaps we could
coordinate nationally for one specific Saturday or
Sunday. That might get some national news attention.At 02:18 19 April 2004,

Hmmm. Seems that once again I didn't make things clear. We do it
every saturday night through spring through fall, and the object isn't
to see as many people as possible, it's to see how many return week
after week. By the time you've seen the same face four times in a
row, you know you have another convert, but you MUST be consistantly
there. The first few weeks we try for as many as possible, but then
ALL of our effort goes into keeping their interest. Several times
each season we set up earlier, and before dark spend the time showing
and explaining our instruments. We do NOT have an organization of our
own, but we do have lists of the different astronomical societies and
contact information. From the two of us that started, we now have
many others that join us, and instead of asking questions, they're
bringing their own telescopes. Two people can make a difference, but
the start before you see any success can be long and frustrating. We
have our differences, I like planets, my partner likes deep space
stuff, but instead of competing, we compliment each other in what we
can offer.

Astronomy has their "Great Night Out", but as far as I know, it seldom
wins the interest of many for more than that one night. It's a long,
steady effort, I don't have many weekends in the season that I don't
have to be there, but having a few hardcore converts makes it worth
the effort. It's a damn lot of work, and your only reward may well be
seeing a little girl's or boy's face light up when they seen the
craters on the moon for the first time. If you want to establish
something even halfway permanent, it has to be done. As our season
headcounts exceed any other of the park activities, I'd say we've done
quite well.

In all the European clubs I have come across, I never watched such a
behaviour. Although I personally think that a PW5 or a 1-26 don't represent
good value for the money (I haven't tons of money, so I need to care :-) I
and most people I met sincerely believe that it is not important what
exactly you fly, the important thing is to fly and to have fun.
And if it comes to all those low-performance-monsters - that's how I started
out long ago, and although I much prefer the ships I fly today there are
very good memories (that I don't want to miss) connected to Ka8, Ka7 L-Spatz
and so on.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Lennie the Lurker" a écrit dans le message de
om...
Martin Gregorie wrote in message
. ..

Sadly, these days (in the UK anyway) it seems that accusations of
elitism often get applied to anything that can't be mastered instantly
and doesn't involve chasing a ball. Gliding is obviously elitist just
because becoming a soaring pilot takes time and involves learning a
number of new skills.

No, the elitism is more often in casual remarks, ("Why anyone would
want to fly that POS is beyond me."), snide little derogatory remarks
towards any that can't or won't spend themselves into bankruptcy for
the sake of maintaining an image. "You'll never (insert favorite
action here) if you keep flying (Insert favorite target aircraft
here)". What part of "This is as much as I'm willing to spend" do you
have a problem understanding? "You will soon get tired of it and want
something better." I'm tired of my 13 year old Chevy truck and would
like a Dodge Viper, too. But it ain't gonna happen. Or as the one
fellow that I still talk with told me, when they're leaning on their
trailers with the glass still inside, laughing up their sleeves
because he's going up in the 2-33, they're still standing on the
ground watching him fly. "I wouldn't waste my time flying (Insert
name here)." (Then stand there and watch everyone else fly.)
"Conditions aren't good enough today." (Great, that means your hour in
the rental is open for someone else.)

Evidently your stomach for elitism and generalized stupidity is
greater than mine.

On 17 Apr 2004 22:51:42 -0700, (Lennie the
Lurker) wrote:

Martin Gregorie wrote in message . ..


That's pretty sad. Where I fly the private gliders range from a really
nice Ka-6 and a couple of Capstans (British wooden side-by-side two
seater) up to new Duos and ASH-25s via a whole stack of Pegases,
Mosquitos, ASW-20s and Discii, but I've never heard those sorts of
remarks made and wouldn't dream of making them.

In 2 1/2 years, I heard at least one of them every day I went to the
airport. How long was I supposed to put up with it before I chucked
the whole damn thing in the trash? Every good day ruined by one
egotistic ass, and I'm supposed to think it's fun? As I've said, not
everyone, only enough of a minority to spoil the whole experience.
"Come on out and get your daily downer." Sorry, someone else can have
it.

At least a few have finally seen that I'm not aiming at specific
individuals, save for finley, and can see the points that I think are
hurting. Maybe I'm more sensitive towards certain behaviors than most
others, and I know that outside of the metalworking profession, I
don't fit in well. However, I've never said otherwise either. From
being an outsider, to an insider, and back to an outsider, I don't
think I'll rock my own boat again.

And I don't think I'm the only one.

The location I live in may have a small advantage over yours: there
are three or so local clubs I could have joined initially. I was
fortunate that the one I fly with was the first I looked at, it felt
right at my first visit and that impression was not misleading.

We may be guilty of not always talking to newcomers as much as we
should, but I've never heard put-downs around the flight line.

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

On 18 Apr 2004 23:11:00 -0700, (Lennie the
Lurker) wrote:

As far as the gliders go, I had my 1-26 and was happy with it, I was
even happy with it after I had flown it.

Dammit, Lennie, you keep putting reasons in front of me to visit the
States again - I really must fly a 1-26 to see why so many pilots like
them.


--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :