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#1
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A fair opportunity to compete?
(US) rule 11.1.1 states; A valid competition day is one in which every
regular entrant is given a fair opportunity to compete. What is the definition of fair? I can tell you what I have used as CD in 3 nationals and several regionals over the last 35 years. The launch should go without interuption. All contestants should be towed to 2000 feet in the designated release area. That's it, you are on your own after release! There is no guarantee that you will find lift. On day 3 at parowan this year, the launch went without delay and all were released in the designated area at 2000 feet. Several pilots didn't find lift and landed back. Some took re-lights and one landed on the dry lake in the release area. About half the class found that all important first thermal, the gate was opened 15 minutes after the last scheduled launch and most completed the assigned task. Data loggers were evaluated, scores computed and day 3 was a valid contest day, right? Not so fast! Two pilots protested that they hadn't been given a fair opportunity to compete. The competition committee met and threw out day 3. Their ruling may seem fair to the 2 protesters, but it was unfair to the remaining 25 pilots in the class. The CD even went so far as to state; If one of the protesters had found lift, he would have come in 3rd for the day! Unbelievable! Just how he determined that remains a mystery? There was one contestant who did place 3rd on that day, but his performance was ignored. I tried to talk to the CD with no response other than; You have the right to protest my ruling. If my 3rd place had counted, I would have been 5th overall and 19 points out of 4th. I withdrew from the contest in disgust! What has our competition come to? Are we all guaranteed lift? Who is to decide if the actions taken by the pilot after release were the correct ones? If you don't find lift, simply land back and file a protest! I will turn 75 next month and Pat and I have been asking ourselves just how much longer all this will be considered fun? In the words of an old country song; That just about does it, Don't it? Pat & JJ Sinclair |
#2
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A fair opportunity to compete?
Charlie's report on the ssa website says it was the last three pilots
to launch who could not stay up, which seems a significant detail. If the first to launch can find lift, get away from the airport, and wait to start, but there really is zero lift in the airport area when the back half of the grid launches, then the decision seems reasonable -- from this very far distance. I take it you don't think there really was zero lift, and it was possible for the back half of the grid to stay up off tow. John Cochrane BB |
#3
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A fair opportunity to compete?
I was the weather guy and sniffer at Parowan and was airborne
observing launch conditions. Storm development near the airport resulted in deteriorating conditions in the drop zone and the latest pilots to launch were under heavy overcast with no lift. As noted, several landed out. They did not "fail to find lift" as JJ alleges, there wasn't any. I was not involved in discussions about this with the CD or competition committee, but, if asked, would have given my assessment that the last aircraft to launch did not have a fair opportunity to compete based on deteriorating weather conditions in all available drop zones. I might add that quite a few of the competitors who completed the task were not thrilled with the decision to scrap the day, but at least they exhibited good sportsmanship by accepting the decision in good grace. Mike |
#4
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A fair opportunity to compete?
Hello JJ,
I am trying to assess the situation from a long way away and little actual information... just the daily reports from the contest and what you have told us below. I think there are situations in which just getting towed to the designated area at 2000' is not necessarily a fair opportunity. For instance, let's say you are the last one or two in the class to be towed and while on tow, showers or whatever inundate the area or the day "just quits", which we have all seen before. So did those who were towed into dead air have a fair opportunity to compete? I think not. Again, I don't know if that applies here or not... just some thoughts... Larry "JJ Sinclair" wrote in message : (US) rule 11.1.1 states; A valid competition day is one in which every regular entrant is given a fair opportunity to compete. What is the definition of fair? I can tell you what I have used as CD in 3 nationals and several regionals over the last 35 years. The launch should go without interuption. All contestants should be towed to 2000 feet in the designated release area. That's it, you are on your own after release! There is no guarantee that you will find lift. On day 3 at parowan this year, the launch went without delay and all were released in the designated area at 2000 feet. Several pilots didn't find lift and landed back. Some took re-lights and one landed on the dry lake in the release area. About half the class found that all important first thermal, the gate was opened 15 minutes after the last scheduled launch and most completed the assigned task. Data loggers were evaluated, scores computed and day 3 was a valid contest day, right? Not so fast! Two pilots protested that they hadn't been given a fair opportunity to compete. The competition committee met and threw out day 3. Their ruling may seem fair to the 2 protesters, but it was unfair to the remaining 25 pilots in the class. The CD even went so far as to state; If one of the protesters had found lift, he would have come in 3rd for the day! Unbelievable! Just how he determined that remains a mystery? There was one contestant who did place 3rd on that day, but his performance was ignored. I tried to talk to the CD with no response other than; You have the right to protest my ruling. If my 3rd place had counted, I would have been 5th overall and 19 points out of 4th. I withdrew from the contest in disgust! What has our competition come to? Are we all guaranteed lift? Who is to decide if the actions taken by the pilot after release were the correct ones? If you don't find lift, simply land back and file a protest! I will turn 75 next month and Pat and I have been asking ourselves just how much longer all this will be considered fun? In the words of an old country song; That just about does it, Don't it? Pat & JJ Sinclair |
#5
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A fair opportunity to compete?
Mike, We all take our turn at the end of the line, don't we? Did the
protesters take their turn in "good grace"? No, they protested a 1000 point day and won an unprecedented protest. To my knowledge this has never happened before. I remember Big Charlie asking the last launcher in nationals (Al Lefler), how he was doing? Al replied, I'm in rain!.............Charlis held the gate 5 minutes, then opened it. JJ I might add that quite a few of the competitors who completed the task were not thrilled with the decision to scrap the day, but at least they exhibited good sportsmanship by accepting the decision in good grace. Mike |
#6
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A fair opportunity to compete?
John,
If the last of the grid is struggling, the gate opening should be withheld. Once the gate is opened, the day results should never be nullified. I would hope that words to that effect find their way into the rules next year. JJ John Cochrane wrote: Charlie's report on the ssa website says it was the last three pilots to launch who could not stay up, which seems a significant detail. If the first to launch can find lift, get away from the airport, and wait to start, but there really is zero lift in the airport area when the back half of the grid launches, then the decision seems reasonable -- from this very far distance. I take it you don't think there really was zero lift, and it was possible for the back half of the grid to stay up off tow. John Cochrane BB |
#7
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A fair opportunity to compete?
On Jul 5, 5:36*pm, JJ Sinclair wrote:
John, If the last of the grid is struggling, the gate opening should be withheld. Once the gate is opened, the day results should never be nullified. I would hope that words to that effect find their way into the rules next year. JJ "Never" is a long time. The CD usually does not talk to every single pilot, only to the task advisers, so he may not know of trouble. The "fair" "safe" and "force majeure" language in the rules allowing days to be thrown out in extreme circumstances seem sensible in principle, even if you disagree in their application in this case. I recall a precedent, a world championship day that was protested and canceled after the fact because a pilot had been towed away from the usual drop zone, too far to make it back to the airport and landed out. I too am a long way away and not even thinking of second-guessing decisions here. Thanks for posting the info so we can all think about it. John Cochrane BB |
#8
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A fair opportunity to compete?
JJ:
I have to concede that the gate was opened before all contestants were climbing out, which isn't optimal. But I understand the reason - the CD was trying to get everyone away on a difficult day and with all the various activities going on may have been having trouble tracking everyone. Things weren't perfect, but that's life, we just have to make the best of events. Mike |
#9
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A fair opportunity to compete?
snip What is the definition of fair?/snip
JJ: There is a jury at the contest appointed to make that determination. They met, deliberated, and rendered a decision, not once, but twice. If the system was completely objective, we would have computers do every bit of the work, and we agree to work within those subjective parameters when we take one of those limited Parowan contest slots. ted/2NO |
#10
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A fair opportunity to compete?
On Jul 5, 9:58Â*pm, Tuno wrote:
snip What is the definition of fair?/snip JJ: There is a jury at the contest appointed to make that determination. They met, deliberated, and rendered a decision, not once, but twice. If the system was completely objective, we would have computers do every bit of the work, and we agree to work within those subjective parameters when we take one of those limited Parowan contest slots. ted/2NO The rules specifically provide an appeal mechanism for decisions by the CD. 8.5 ‡ Appeal of a decision of the CD shall be directed to the SSA Contest Committee Chairman and must include all relevant documents such as the written protest, the CD's written decision, statements of witnesses, etc. Written notification of intent to appeal must be given to the CD within 24 hours of the CD's decision and the appeal must be delivered to the SSA within ten days of the decision. The Chairman of the SSA Contest Committee shall seek advice from members of the SSA Rules Committee, and shall make a prompt response, in writing, giving a decision and the reason for it. To the best of my knowledge, JJ did not 1. File any protest 2. File any appeal As the scorer for the contest, member of the competition committee for the contest and rules committee member, I can assure all that the decision to cancel the day was not taken lightly - especially given the great flights by some of the class members. It is also true that (in my opinion) the situation was not absolutely black and white. As reported by Mike the Strike, conditions in the drop zones were rapidly deteriorating. The following class was not even launched. What I don't understand is what "resigning in disgust" accomplished. Had the defined process been followed it would have not only subjected the decision to more experienced review, but also helped to clarify the decision making guidelines for this type of situation for the future. This would not only help the sport but also the volunteers that we depend on to stage our competitions. |
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