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#31
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Another YouTube video
Bill Daniels wrote:
If I read modern demographics right, something like 30% never marry and raise children. A few of those should make good candidates. It's very important to keep in mind that we are talking about less than 1% of the general population. In that light, generalizations always fail. We recruit one-by-one. In our sport, mass marketing is an oxymoron. Now there is the truth and challenge of it Bill. Mass marketing to such a bunch of misanthropic mavericks is indeed a contradictory process. Half the attraction for me is the solitude and self reliance and challenges involved in taking a single seat glass slipper (OK mine is a little woolly from age) and doing incredible things. All alone, no excuses, nobody else to blame. Incredibly selfish. Conversely,the other half of the attraction for me is the shared experience and social part of a club operation. Making it work requires a strong sense of community with the bunch of reprobates at the club. One problem here is the increasingly commercial mindset. People simultaneously complain of the cost of things, and insist on paying for instant gratification rather than investing time and effort to obtain the same result without the cost. It is the difference in mindset between enjoying the journey, and the "are we there yet?" approach. If you can get people to see the value of and pleasure to be had in the "journey" part of the sport they will stay. Even if the day is not flyable, a day spent tinkering with the toys with like minded people is more fun for me than most alternatives. But if you have the mindset that the only purpose of this is the time spent in the air you are going to feel he return is inadequate. Interestingly this appears to be learned behaviour - we take 14/15 year olds and give them responsibilities and value the contribution they make, and they develop a sense of pride and achievement. They start getting a reward from contributing - which is noticeably absent from most of the 20 somethings we attract to intro flights. It is not just age related, although age and gender magnify the differences. Any time you get such a high concentration of individualists as opposed to the bland masses who can't see the point, there are going to be some challenges. So - to (eventually ) get to the point. It is not about mass marketing, it is about finding the reward for the individual when he/she presents at the field. However, I do agree that there is a 'critical mass' for attracting women and youth. I'm sure being the only one present is uncomfortable Bill Daniels "Dan G" wrote in message ups.com... On Aug 13, 10:20 pm, Papa3 wrote: Anyone who spends any time on "marketing" will tell you that step 1 is to carefully segment your market. Having done that, you then figure out what appeals to each of your segments and market appropriately. In our case, it's pretty clear that we can/should have many target markets. What works for the under 25 set may not and probably will not appeal to the 50 and over set. You can "target" some products, but only if you can tailor the product to the market. If you can't you start selling a perception, rather than a reality, which leads to rapid turn-over in members (to keep the discussion to gliding). I'm 26, and I fly in a club that happens to have a lot of younger members, and several women too, so have a good idea of what I'm talking about, because I'm talking about my friends and myself. There is a high turnover in the young members in the club - only a *very* few young people will stick with gliding through their career advancement and starting a family. Older members have no such limitations, and typically stacks of cash they're having trouble spending now their children have flown the nest. The few young people who stick with gliding for any length of time almost always receive a lot of money from their parents, one of whom is usually already a glider pilot. There are not many people in that category, so it's not worth "targetting" that "market". (Rock climbing, which is "another extreme outdoor sport" and one that has a "young" image, is something I used to to, and I reckon that cost me about 10% of what gliding has for the same period of time. I've managed to stick with gliding because our club is very cheap, but as a result has poor facilities, and it's only through drive and stubborness that I've managed to progress at all. Many of my peers give up and leave.) Marketing is almost a side-show; most clubs get plenty of trial flight customers. Turning them into pilots who stay in the sport for years is the challenge. If gliding clubs are interested in expansion there are lots of things they can do. If you want to know what, the GFA have literally written the book: http://www.gfa.org.au/development/guide.php Download the draft guide from the third box on the right. (There's also the SSA Growbook, of course, which has lots of good stuff in it too.) Clubs have two options: follow the advice of the GFA and SSA and grow, ignore it and shrink. As the IGC president said earlier this year, glider pilots will place all the obstacles in the world before themselves before they'll actually do anything, so I don't expect to see any clubs following that guide (someone prove me wrong). Dan |
#32
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Another YouTube video
On Aug 14, 6:15 am, Dan G wrote:
On Aug 13, 10:20 pm, Papa3 wrote: Anyone who spends any time on "marketing" will tell you that step 1 is to carefully segment your market. Having done that, you then figure out what appeals to each of your segments and market appropriately. In our case, it's pretty clear that we can/should have many target markets. What works for the under 25 set may not and probably will not appeal to the 50 and over set. You can "target" some products, but only if you can tailor the product to the market. If you can't you start selling a perception, rather than a reality, which leads to rapid turn-over in members (to keep the discussion to gliding). I'm 26, and I fly in a club that happens to have a lot of younger members, and several women too, so have a good idea of what I'm talking about, because I'm talking about my friends and myself. There is a high turnover in the young members in the club - only a *very* few young people will stick with gliding through their career advancement and starting a family. Older members have no such limitations, and typically stacks of cash they're having trouble spending now their children have flown the nest. The few young people who stick with gliding for any length of time almost always receive a lot of money from their parents, one of whom is usually already a glider pilot. There are not many people in that category, so it's not worth "targetting" that "market". Dan Someone already beat me to part of the punch, but... I'm a good example of someone who doesn't fit the model you describe. Took up gliding at age 18 in college, and I'm still at it 23 years later after a "real job" and "real kids". Sadly, I'm still among the youngest at any contest I go to. If you look around, there are more than a few folks who came in young and stuck with it, but they came from clubs or operations where there was some level of interest in and support for youth. Harris Hill comes to mind as one example of a place (in the US) that's produced many lifelong soaring pilots. So, I don't agree that we shouldn't market to youth. As someone else pointed out, it's also the case that many people who get their first experience when they're young and carefree come back after the kids are in high school or college. As far as the product is concerned, I couldn't agree more that the real issue is keeping people interested for the long haul. And, all of the comments about making the sport more appealing on all levels ring true. I was just focused on the marketing side for this thread. Cheers, P3 |
#33
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Another YouTube video
At 14:54 14 August 2007, Bill Daniels wrote:
snip However, I do agree that there is a 'critical mass' for attracting women and youth. I'm sure being the only one present is uncomfortable My own background includes doing science at school (mostly male), working in a mainly male industry (IT), and a lot of single-handed dinghy racing (also mostly male) so it wasn't usually a problem for me but that is probably unusual. Of course once I'd got hooked (about 30 seconds after 1st launch - I got hooked on dinghy sailing just as quickly, but 40 years ago!) I soon found that regardless of age or gender we all had something in common - we like gliding. But it's getting through to realising that that matters. |
#34
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Another YouTube video
On Aug 14, 3:07 pm, Sally W
wrote: At 14:54 14 August 2007, Bill Daniels wrote: snip However, I do agree that there is a 'critical mass' for attracting women and youth. I'm sure being the only one present is uncomfortable My own background includes doing science at school (mostly male), working in a mainly male industry (IT), and a lot of single-handed dinghy racing (also mostly male) so it wasn't usually a problem for me but that is probably unusual. Of course once I'd got hooked (about 30 seconds after 1st launch - I got hooked on dinghy sailing just as quickly, but 40 years ago!) I soon found that regardless of age or gender we all had something in common - we like gliding. But it's getting through to realising that that matters. We have watched some great soaring videos. Now what? The discussion inspired me to begin the process of setting up a Web page to serve as a collection point for the best soaring videos. Go to my web site and see the ones I've imported. www.soar.weebly.com Please nominate videos you think I should add, and check back as the site evolves. As chair of the SSA Publicity Committee, I'm looking for good promotional materials and people to use the materials. Consider joining the Promote Soaring Team. For more information, check out the Publicity Homepage. You can get there from the SSA page on the SSA web site. Click on the "Publicity" tab. |
#35
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Another YouTube video
One thing we did in our club. After drifting up and
down between 60 - 90 members, (mostly down for the last 10 years and including just two women), we halved the initiation fee and put on a campaign to attract new members -- flyers sent to registered airplane pilots in our area, and a couple of other things. We've had an influx of 22 new members and 5 of them are young women! I don't know how that happened because they were not pilots. They are highschool age, college age, and one young mother. Don't discount serendipity, but don't count on it either! At 21:36 14 August 2007, Vsoars wrote: On Aug 14, 3:07 pm, Sally W wrote: At 14:54 14 August 2007, Bill Daniels wrote: However, I do agree that there is a 'critical mass' for attracting women and youth. I'm sure being the only one present is uncomfortable My own background includes doing science at school (mostly male), working in a mainly male industry (IT), and a lot of single-handed dinghy racing (also mostly male) so it wasn't usually a problem for me but that is probably unusual. Of course once I'd got hooked (about 30 seconds after 1st launch - I got hooked on dinghy sailing just as quickly, but 40 years ago!) I soon found that regardless of age or gender we all had something in common - we like gliding. But it's getting through to realising that that matters. We have watched some great soaring videos. Now what? The discussion inspired me to begin the process of setting up a Web page to serve as a collection point for the best soaring videos. Go to my web site and see the ones I've imported. www.soar.weebly.com Please nominate videos you think I should add, and check back as the site evolves. As chair of the SSA Publicity Committee, I'm looking for good promotional materials and people to use the materials. Consider joining the Promote Soaring Team. For more information, check out the Publicity Homepage. You can get there from the SSA page on the SSA web site. Click on the 'Publicity' tab. |
#36
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Another YouTube video
YouTube and community generated content certainly has it's place, and
there is a lot of great material out there, but here is a hint on production values for any "officially produced" media: http://iwc-media.futurecom.ch/techni...pilots_big.wmv While the storyline in this marketing flick is not anything special, we would likely benefit from some material which is closer to these production values. Another example is the Van Nuys video. http://www.onesixright.com/ I don't know the background story for One Six Right, but if the creators could mine the nostalgia and passion for old airports and aircraft in such a way, I'm quite certain that they could tell a great story for a broad audience about modern soaring, competition, raw speed/grace/beauty, accessibility, and throw in a bit about the classics for those types. If someone could follow-up with the producers/directors/backers of OSR, there might already be a passionate soaring pilot amongst them, or maybe they just need to be "steered" towards their next project. Neither of the above examples is perfect -- both are a bit too nostalgic and cheesy for my tastes -- but again, the production values of these two flicks are a good reference point for future work. Regarding marketing via the web. See: http://www.londonglidingclub.co.uk/. The designer pretty much hit the sweet spot as far as marketing soaring to the public online. I believe that the designer is a pilot and has posted on RAS previously. Perhaps the designer is available to consult on other online PR efforts, or perhaps they can recommend other sources if not. Disclaimer: All these links have likely surfaced on RAS previously. But hey, this very thread is probably a dupe. P.S. Another example. The Grand Prix videos are going in the right direction but are perhaps a bit too focused on "racing" and competition to truly reach a wide audience. |
#37
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Another YouTube video
I think we are all missing a point about why other sports attract kids
and soaring generally doesn't. Think about things that kids get into (other than video games). Snow boarding. Mountain biking. Sky Diving. Scuba diving. Para- whatever. What do they have in common? The turnaround time from beginner to the point of "pushing the edge" is short. There is little regulation (or self regulated) in the sport to create stumbling blocks. The sports are edgy and are immediately thrilling (and sound thrilling to your friends). All the sports (and power flying also) mentioned above can be done nearly any day of the week. It's all about short attention spans, busy lives and needing immediate gratification. Now let's take the sport we know and love. This great video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aumO0ZHwAro is very, very appealing to kids because it presents the exciting side of the sport and shows kids doing it. Unfortunately, getting to the point of being able to do any of these things requires years of practice and is generally frowned upon or considered outright illegal by our regulators. Therefore soaring is bound to disappoint the crowd that wants this kind of immediate rush. What to do about this inherent liability of soaring? There are some smart people in the sport that may be able to help but some things we just cannot fix. We can't fly every day. We can't get someone solo- ing after a few flights. These things aren't fixable by the very nature of the sport. My club tries very hard to attract youngsters and keep them involved but we loose them unless they are inherently drawn to what we do. Some are, most aren't. CAP is great but the kids that go for CAP are viewed by the "cool" kids like being a "uncool" Boy Scout (I think otherwise). Too bad. I think that our sport will survive. We just need to understand that it will never be the big bang that the latest trendy thrill-fest is. Thanks, John "67R" DeRosa PS One small point - When I am talking about what soaring I use the word "racing". I don't fly a glider, I fly a "racing sailplane". I amaze people with tales of stay up (all of) three hours!! Its my way of making the sport a "thrill-fest". |
#38
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Another YouTube video
On Aug 20, 2:43 am, ContestID67 wrote:
I think we are all missing a point about why other sports attract kids and soaring generally doesn't... A good post, but I can't decide if I agree with you or not. Absolutely, the things in those videos are not the reality of gliding - useful for raising awareness perhaps, but if we sold gliding on those we'd be misleading potential pilots. On the other hand, gliding is a lot more immeadiate and rewarding than you give it credit for - I think you're a little harsh on the differences between gliding and other "extreme" sports. I learnt to glide on the winch, and my first half-dozen or so winch launches were the most exciting thing I've ever done, and I've done a fair few things. Even after those first few flights, I never found the early parts of learning to fly anything other than a thrill - I still remember the buzz when my instructor said "now you're going to fly the top part of the launch" - whoa! Or my first attempt to fly the glider down the approach - utterly crap, speed and reference point all over the shop, but I so desperately wanted to do it again and again and finally get the thing on the deck properly. I've sailed, rock climbed and mountain biked and learning to fly easily equalled any of those. It was later that the problems start, and why I wrote: Marketing is almost a side-show; most clubs get plenty of trial flight customers. Turning them into pilots who stay in the sport for years is the challenge. I became incredibly frustrated in my club as getting instruction became harder and harder during the winter (I joined in the autumn). Ask any pre-solo pilot who quits and they'll tell you that's why. Being at the airfield is less fun than something else they could be doing. I personally desperately wanted to become a soaring pilot and wasn't going to let these problems stop me, but it shouldn't be that hard. Post-solo has been equally difficult - everybody knows many solo pilots soon jack it in as their progression stops. What to do about that? It's not hard. Have a glider that can be booked for instruction, so the trainee knows it's worth their while to go to the field. Have an instructor incentive scheme that's actually worthwhile - ask the instructors what they want, and give them it, so you have enough to provide flight instruction. Encourage your field to be run better - get it going at 9am in the morning, not 10.30. Make it clear to everyone what time they should get there in the morning - they'll moan, but soon find that it's worthwhile as everything starts happening faster rather than waiting around for instructors, marshalls and winch/tug drivers to turn up in their own sweet time. Get the launch rate up through good training and support for people are doing the ground-handling (i.e. not shouting at people when they make mistakes, but actually helping them to do it better). Have a post-solo development system. The trouble is, it *is* hard. Clubs are mostly made up of people who have been gliding for years and have a fixed view of "the way things should be done". Getting them to change is nigh-on impossible. I have no idea if it's even possible. If a gliding club wants to grow, it needs to put these things in order. "Marketing" is, if anything, a distraction away from the real problems gliding faces. But does any of this matter? Gliding worldwide is declining quickly. German gliding is imploding and in the UK membership is at it's lowest point for decades. Is this a problem? Hard to say. Most clubs are big enough for it not to be a problem for a while yet. Having fewer people in the sport will mean clubs are less congested and it will be easier to get a launch when you want. There will be fewer people trying to fly the club aircraft. As the number of pilots declines and there are still a few sales of new sailplanes, second hand glider prices will drop. On the other hand, clubs may well shrink to the point where mid-week launching is unviable due to lack of demand. Prices will have to rise to make up for falling numbers. Smaller clubs will close. Gliding will have a quieter voice as airline travel and demand for airspace grows. This is something for individual clubs to decide about for themselves. Either they want to grow or they're happy as they are. (Some clubs that own their fields are cunningly off-setting their shrinking membership and rising costs by building power hangars and renting them out.) National bodies can do little or nothing - they can't tell the clubs how to run themselves, only give advice if they want it. If you want to grow your club, download the GFA Development Guide and implement it's advice. Don't talk it to death, just do it. Dan |
#39
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Another YouTube video
People keep going on about the decline in membership.
Funny, but our club is busier now than at any time in the last 6 years (that I have been a member). The cost of gliding. Winches work - old rag and tube gliders get expensive to maintain eventually. By comparison the workhorse glass gliders seem to be cheapest in the long run. They make better trainers because of better performance and handling, and certainly are more "sexy" for attracting students. Nicer facilities would be nice - but then we would lose members because costs would go up. (play to your market?) Those looking at the decline in membership in the EU at the moment need to consider the demographics and economics contributing. New rules suddenly prevent a lot of the gliding population from flying solo because of age. The BGA members now have a lot more bureaucracy to deal with, not much fun. Germany has a rapidly ageing population, has high unemployment, and is losing economically active people at the highest rate since the second world war. Hardly a growth market for any recreation activity. Presumably this will stabilise, but statistically we can expect the number of EASA regulated pilots to decrease. Largely due factors unrelated to gliding per se. What we focus on, is that club activity should be fun. That simple - this is why people do recreation activities - if it is no longer fun, it stops happening. So those who make it no fun for others find the advantages of joining another club, or taking up knitting being explained to them. Works wonders. Dan G wrote: On Aug 20, 2:43 am, ContestID67 wrote: I think we are all missing a point about why other sports attract kids and soaring generally doesn't... A good post, but I can't decide if I agree with you or not. Absolutely, the things in those videos are not the reality of gliding - useful for raising awareness perhaps, but if we sold gliding on those we'd be misleading potential pilots. On the other hand, gliding is a lot more immeadiate and rewarding than you give it credit for - I think you're a little harsh on the differences between gliding and other "extreme" sports. I learnt to glide on the winch, and my first half-dozen or so winch launches were the most exciting thing I've ever done, and I've done a fair few things. Even after those first few flights, I never found the early parts of learning to fly anything other than a thrill - I still remember the buzz when my instructor said "now you're going to fly the top part of the launch" - whoa! Or my first attempt to fly the glider down the approach - utterly crap, speed and reference point all over the shop, but I so desperately wanted to do it again and again and finally get the thing on the deck properly. I've sailed, rock climbed and mountain biked and learning to fly easily equalled any of those. It was later that the problems start, and why I wrote: Marketing is almost a side-show; most clubs get plenty of trial flight customers. Turning them into pilots who stay in the sport for years is the challenge. I became incredibly frustrated in my club as getting instruction became harder and harder during the winter (I joined in the autumn). Ask any pre-solo pilot who quits and they'll tell you that's why. Being at the airfield is less fun than something else they could be doing. I personally desperately wanted to become a soaring pilot and wasn't going to let these problems stop me, but it shouldn't be that hard. Post-solo has been equally difficult - everybody knows many solo pilots soon jack it in as their progression stops. What to do about that? It's not hard. Have a glider that can be booked for instruction, so the trainee knows it's worth their while to go to the field. Have an instructor incentive scheme that's actually worthwhile - ask the instructors what they want, and give them it, so you have enough to provide flight instruction. Encourage your field to be run better - get it going at 9am in the morning, not 10.30. Make it clear to everyone what time they should get there in the morning - they'll moan, but soon find that it's worthwhile as everything starts happening faster rather than waiting around for instructors, marshalls and winch/tug drivers to turn up in their own sweet time. Get the launch rate up through good training and support for people are doing the ground-handling (i.e. not shouting at people when they make mistakes, but actually helping them to do it better). Have a post-solo development system. The trouble is, it *is* hard. Clubs are mostly made up of people who have been gliding for years and have a fixed view of "the way things should be done". Getting them to change is nigh-on impossible. I have no idea if it's even possible. If a gliding club wants to grow, it needs to put these things in order. "Marketing" is, if anything, a distraction away from the real problems gliding faces. But does any of this matter? Gliding worldwide is declining quickly. German gliding is imploding and in the UK membership is at it's lowest point for decades. Is this a problem? Hard to say. Most clubs are big enough for it not to be a problem for a while yet. Having fewer people in the sport will mean clubs are less congested and it will be easier to get a launch when you want. There will be fewer people trying to fly the club aircraft. As the number of pilots declines and there are still a few sales of new sailplanes, second hand glider prices will drop. On the other hand, clubs may well shrink to the point where mid-week launching is unviable due to lack of demand. Prices will have to rise to make up for falling numbers. Smaller clubs will close. Gliding will have a quieter voice as airline travel and demand for airspace grows. This is something for individual clubs to decide about for themselves. Either they want to grow or they're happy as they are. (Some clubs that own their fields are cunningly off-setting their shrinking membership and rising costs by building power hangars and renting them out.) National bodies can do little or nothing - they can't tell the clubs how to run themselves, only give advice if they want it. If you want to grow your club, download the GFA Development Guide and implement it's advice. Don't talk it to death, just do it. Dan |
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