Low Time and Insurance - Cessna P206

I am a student pilot getting ready to solo next week (26 hours now). I
am interested in a 1/3rd share of a '65 P206 due to my large family.
Apparently annual insurance is currently $1950. The seller has
contacted the partnership's insurance broker who has checked with
their current insurer who states they will not insure me when I get my
private. The selling partner has expressed concern about wasting the
broker's time.

I obviously am not interested in buying into a plane I won't be able
to fly. Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on this?

Thanks much.

I wouldn't worry about wasting the broker's time--that's their job to provide
info on what they can and cannot do. Rates definitely vary based on
number of hours and type of experience, and I wouldn't be surprised if they
had a minimum of at least 125 hours, and/or a number of hours of dual
instruction in the airplane. If the other partners are high time pilots, and you are
added to the insurance, the rate will almost certainly increase by a very significant percentage.
If the partner doesn't want to call the broker, call him yourself or call any insurance
broker. The rates and minimum hours will vary somewhat from company to company,
but it will give you a good idea of what the hurdle will be.
Max T, MCFI

Shawn wrote in message om...
I am a student pilot getting ready to solo next week (26 hours now). I
am interested in a 1/3rd share of a '65 P206 due to my large family.
Apparently annual insurance is currently $1950. The seller has
contacted the partnership's insurance broker who has checked with
their current insurer who states they will not insure me when I get my
private. The selling partner has expressed concern about wasting the
broker's time.

I obviously am not interested in buying into a plane I won't be able
to fly. Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on this?

Thanks much.

(Shawn) wrote in
om:
The selling partner has expressed concern about wasting the
broker's time.

It's the broker's job. Ask if you can talk to the broker yourself.

I obviously am not interested in buying into a plane I won't be
able
to fly. Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on this?

A P206 is quite a lot of airplane for a new pilot. Even if you
waited until after getting your private certificate, you probably
would have a hard time getting affordable insurance (some
underwriters may not even cover you).

Here's some experience I've had. I own a Mooney M20J with two other
pilots. In 1999 when partner #3 bought in, he had about 200 hours
and no instrument rating. Our insurance premium increased by $1,000.
After he got his instrument rating, the premium dropped back down.
We've been trying to get a $1M smooth (no per-person sublimits)
policy, but the cost has been prohibitive (extra $800 I think) until
partner #3 gets 500 hours total time. He'll be there at the next
renewal.

My suggestion would be to get your private *and* instrument done
before buying into the P206. By that time you'll have a lot more
hours and will be easier to insure in that plane. You may have to
rent for a while, or find a simpler plane to buy into. However,
that's just based on my limited experience with insurance companies.
I would discuss this with the broker yourself. Ask him what it would
take to get insured. Also ask about the current liability limits on
the policy, and if those limits would need to change if you were
added.

If you are able to get insured for the P206, talk to the other
partners about how they want to deal with the insurance payment. For
our partnership, we just split it 3 ways even though two of us are
commercial pilots/CFIs with a lot more hours than partner #3. I've
heard of others that get a per-pilot quote from the broker, and each
pays a non-equal share based on how much they personally added to
the liability premium.

Phil
www.pfactor.com

"Phil Verghese" wrote in message
. 3.44...
(Shawn) wrote in
om:
A P206 is quite a lot of airplane for a new pilot. Even if you
waited until after getting your private certificate, you probably
would have a hard time getting affordable insurance (some
underwriters may not even cover you).


Why? It is a relatively slow, fixed gear airplane. The main addition to a
a 172 is a CS prop and two more seats. I don't understand why a new PP
would be difficult to insure.

Mike
MU-2

In article ,
Shawn wrote:
I am a student pilot getting ready to solo next week (26 hours now). I
am interested in a 1/3rd share of a '65 P206 due to my large family.

It is going to be really hard to get insured at around 60 hours (which
is where I'd guess you'll finish). A lot of underwriters will want
250tt and an instrument rating and will want 15-25 hours in type
before you solo. However, there is probably *some* underwriter that
will cover you for a large premium, but you'll need a broker to
negotiate that for you. Absolutely request a *quote* if you are
serious. I got a few brokers to estimate for me but when I finally
got quotes the actual premiums were significantly different (lower,
luckily) and came with different training requirements.

One other thing you need to do is call Avemco directly. They are
the only underwriter that doesn't work through brokers. They seem
willing to write unusual risks (at alarming rates) and will pro-rate
a reduction in your premium as you satisfy risk-lowering requirements.
For example, if you bought a plane and got a hangar in 6 months you
could get their 10% hangar discount for the last 6 months of the policy.
As you get more time in type, complete your instrument rating, complete
some recommended safety courses you can get the discounts immediately
rather than waiting until your next renewal.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

In article et,
Mike Rapoport wrote:

Why? It is a relatively slow, fixed gear airplane. The main addition to a
a 172 is a CS prop and two more seats. I don't understand why a new PP
would be difficult to insure.

Underwriters look at accident history. A 206 is a travelling plane.
When people crash it they've loaded 6 people into it and flown it into
weather they/it can't handle because they need to Get There. The crashes
are due to errors in judgement rather than skill. A 206 requires a lot
more judgement than a 172, even if not much more skill.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

In article ,
(Shawn) wrote:

I am a student pilot getting ready to solo next week (26 hours now). I
am interested in a 1/3rd share of a '65 P206 due to my large family.


How large a family? A 6 seater does not mean you can always fill 6
seats. Or a four seater for that matter.

Edward

You will not be wasting the insurance broker's time by talking to him. That
is his job and if he doesn't like it then it is time to look for a new
broker. You need to find out what the insurance company requires for you to
be covered as a named pilot and then start jumping through the hoops. "No"
is not an answer. "Ten hours with an instructor" is an answer.

The Cessna 206 is a high performance airplane with a constant speed prop. It
is very easy to fly and some pilots learn to fly in them. It requires a
little more advance planning when entering the pattern and it is very nose
heavy, but it is not so fast that a low time pilot is going to get very far
behind it.

"Ben Jackson" wrote in message
news:jdXkb.827639$YN5.865583@sccrnsc01...
| In article et,
| Mike Rapoport wrote:
|
| Why? It is a relatively slow, fixed gear airplane. The main addition to
a
| a 172 is a CS prop and two more seats. I don't understand why a new PP
| would be difficult to insure.
|
| Underwriters look at accident history.

Fine. If you look at the accident history of the Cessna 206 you will find it
has a much better than average safety record, comparable to that of the
Cessna 172 and 182. The most common accident in the 206 is dropping it on
its nose when landing -- not often a fatal mistake, but it does damage the
nose gear.

"Ben Jackson" wrote in message
. net...
| In article ,
| Shawn wrote:
| I am a student pilot getting ready to solo next week (26 hours now). I
| am interested in a 1/3rd share of a '65 P206 due to my large family.
|
| It is going to be really hard to get insured at around 60 hours (which
| is where I'd guess you'll finish). A lot of underwriters will want
| 250tt and an instrument rating and will want 15-25 hours in type
| before you solo.

My own experience is that insurance companies are demanding five to ten
hours of dual and no minimum time for a 206.