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#1
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F.L. Whiteley wrote:
Winch launching would be 'real' educational;^) That it would be... Does PASCO still operate an oxygen cart for wave camps? No, the oxygen cart is long gone, along with the PASCO wave camps. There is plenty of oxygen (and tows) available from the two FBOs at Minden, year round. Marc |
#2
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F.L. Whiteley wrote:
Efficiency and safety are likely to get in the way, politically. We have ground launched at the local public airport on a demonstration basis during open hours day with lots of power traffic. However on a day to day basis the airport manager apparently has rejected CAP plans to aerotow from the same airport. Why the CAP stopped to ask, I have no idea. CAP always has to ask... There are a few publicly funded, uncontrolled airports in on the western Colorado slope that have been used for ground launch. These are a bit remote, but great soaring areas and would make excellent camp sites. In fact, winch launching or auto tow are logistically easier as there's not avgas on site, meaning an extra vehicle to haul drums if the tow plane comes along. We plan on using one private (6000') and one public strip (7000') Excellent points. Towplanes are a bit in need of support equipment.. As I count up the 5000+ runways without a tower in CA, there are 38, but only 4 of them: L04 (Holtville), SAS (Salton Sea), L94 (Tehachapi MTN), PRB (Paso Robles) have no lights. Interesting, Tehachapi MTN lists "auto tow by special arrangement" and is apparently a public airport. Hmmm... I've been to the other three also. Salton Sea is just a big flat dry salt lake with a windsock and some "markings." Ideal place. Holtville and Paso Robles have clutter on runway sides. If you want unencumbered access for soaring, something like this is prudent http://www.airsailing.org/ Although it may be also quiet cheap to lease land on a long term lease (when compared to buying and paying taxes) and set up a ground launch operation. I can show you places within a 45min drive of my place where we could quite literally pay out 10K worth of spectra behind a vehicle and launch to great heights. HG pilots use this area for auto launch frequently. The places to look for are potential ridge top or ridge bottom sites. In some cases a BLM patent can be secured and away you go. It just takes some vision and initiative and a sensible approach. The SSA club committee highly recommends organizing a 501c(3) and pressing ahead with securing access to a primo site. Getting it close in may be problematic. Why PASCO or RESCO don't own/operate winches is beyond me. Frank Whiteley Thanks for the ideas, I'll pass them along... -- ------------+ Mark Boyd Avenal, California, USA |
#3
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I thought Tehachapi MTN was a private airport, and he needs a heads up to
get his auto tow rig ready.. BT "Mark James Boyd" wrote in message news:4046f7ef$1@darkstar... F.L. Whiteley wrote: Efficiency and safety are likely to get in the way, politically. We have ground launched at the local public airport on a demonstration basis during open hours day with lots of power traffic. However on a day to day basis the airport manager apparently has rejected CAP plans to aerotow from the same airport. Why the CAP stopped to ask, I have no idea. CAP always has to ask... There are a few publicly funded, uncontrolled airports in on the western Colorado slope that have been used for ground launch. These are a bit remote, but great soaring areas and would make excellent camp sites. In fact, winch launching or auto tow are logistically easier as there's not avgas on site, meaning an extra vehicle to haul drums if the tow plane comes along. We plan on using one private (6000') and one public strip (7000') Excellent points. Towplanes are a bit in need of support equipment.. As I count up the 5000+ runways without a tower in CA, there are 38, but only 4 of them: L04 (Holtville), SAS (Salton Sea), L94 (Tehachapi MTN), PRB (Paso Robles) have no lights. Interesting, Tehachapi MTN lists "auto tow by special arrangement" and is apparently a public airport. Hmmm... I've been to the other three also. Salton Sea is just a big flat dry salt lake with a windsock and some "markings." Ideal place. Holtville and Paso Robles have clutter on runway sides. If you want unencumbered access for soaring, something like this is prudent http://www.airsailing.org/ Although it may be also quiet cheap to lease land on a long term lease (when compared to buying and paying taxes) and set up a ground launch operation. I can show you places within a 45min drive of my place where we could quite literally pay out 10K worth of spectra behind a vehicle and launch to great heights. HG pilots use this area for auto launch frequently. The places to look for are potential ridge top or ridge bottom sites. In some cases a BLM patent can be secured and away you go. It just takes some vision and initiative and a sensible approach. The SSA club committee highly recommends organizing a 501c(3) and pressing ahead with securing access to a primo site. Getting it close in may be problematic. Why PASCO or RESCO don't own/operate winches is beyond me. Frank Whiteley Thanks for the ideas, I'll pass them along... -- ------------+ Mark Boyd Avenal, California, USA |
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#5
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#6
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(Mark James Boyd) wrote
I spent a good portion of the past few days looking into auto-tow launching. After some fairly extensive searching, I found that, as far as I can tell, nobody has used auto-tow OR winch launch at a public airport in four years. That comes as a surprise to me since I got my ground launch endorsement at a public airport (Caddo Mills, TX - 7F3) with a commercial operation - Southwest Soaring (http://www.southwestsoaring.com). This was just a year ago, and the web site indicates auto tows are still done. This was quite troubling to me. It seems public airports have rejected ground launch entirely. Actually, that hasn't been my impression at all. Hearne (KLHB) seems quite happy to have autotows. These are hang-gliders and paragliders, but I have a hard time believing they would object to gliders. I know that when the club I belinged to stopped doing autotows at Hearne, this was a club decision rather than an airport decision. Hmmm...I was a bit surprised at how little the "public" airports support soaring. Actually, I've never noticed that at all. When the FBO I instruct for began to have financial disagreements with the city of Bryan (which owns Coulter Field - CFD), soaring was never a bone of contention. Coulter continues to support a skydiving operation as well, and several ultralights are housed there. The operator was offered several new homes, including a local towered field with airline traffic. He eventually settled on Navasota (60R), a local municipal field where he got a better deal (I assume). I was slow in moving my glider, but the new FBO at Coulter was only too happy to have me there paying tiedown. I was told that if I wanted to keep a towplane there and be based there, that was cool too. I aerotowed out of there with the full cooperation of the new FBO - in fact, the line guy offered to run my wing. Bottom line, it has been my experience that, at least in Texas, most public airports are happy to have any recognized aeronautical activity that generates revenue, including soaring, and work to integrate the activity into the normal flow of operations rather than forbidding it. Sure, sure they turn a blind eye to the occasional aero-retrieve, but if anything happened, the "walked on the runway" illegality would absolve the airport of any liability... Why exactly should the airport have any liability in the first place, and why do you object to them taking steps to limit it? This kind of attitude might explain the problems you have with airport access in California. Michael |
#7
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Last summer we did a few auto tows out of Tonapah
NV (thanks to Jim Dingus for bringing the rope and truck). We even had the FBO manager drive for us! 2000' of rope, 1 6cylinder truck, 2 gliders and a couple of 500k's later and it was all smiles |
#8
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"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message news:4046baa4$1@darkstar... I spent a good portion of the past few days looking into auto-tow launching. After some fairly extensive searching, I found that, as far as I can tell, nobody has used auto-tow OR winch launch at a public airport in four years. About 90 percent of my launches are by auto-tow on the ramp at Hobbs Industrial Airpark, a city owned, public use airport with limited power traffic. The club at Hobbs does not own a towplane and they launch almost completely by winch. Local power traffic is sophisticated about the problems of ground launch and the people doing ground launch are careful. It has been many years since there were any incidents. One I heard about was a Bonanza getting a prop tangled up in a winch wire on the ground. I keep a reel in the back of my Ford Escape that has the 1500 foot launch rope on it. After a launch the rope is reeled in by an electric motor on the reel. Very tidy and easy. I average around 1,200 feet on the very long ramp at Hobbs with a PW-5. Rarely do I have to take a relight but when I do I feel like I can stand the 35 cents or so it costs to take another one. Those $40 contest tows are quite a shock for me. Larry Pardue 2I |
#9
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Larry Pardue wrote:
I keep a reel in the back of my Ford Escape that has the 1500 foot launch rope on it. After a launch the rope is reeled in by an electric motor on the reel. Very tidy and easy. I average around 1,200 feet on the very long ramp at Hobbs with a PW-5. Rarely do I have to take a relight but when I do I feel like I can stand the 35 cents or so it costs to take another one. Those $40 contest tows are quite a shock for me. I'll bet! Do you tow anything heavier than the PW5, and how does that work out? -- ----- change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA |
#10
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"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message ... Larry Pardue wrote: I keep a reel in the back of my Ford Escape that has the 1500 foot launch rope on it. After a launch the rope is reeled in by an electric motor on the reel. Very tidy and easy. I average around 1,200 feet on the very long ramp at Hobbs with a PW-5. Rarely do I have to take a relight but when I do I feel like I can stand the 35 cents or so it costs to take another one. Those $40 contest tows are quite a shock for me. I'll bet! Do you tow anything heavier than the PW5, and how does that work out? I used to tow my Mini-Nimbus with a 140 HP Ford Taurus wagon. I actually got better tows with that setup, I think because of a more favorable CG hook position, but I never car-launched with much water because I was HP limited. Instructions to the tow driver were "floorboard it until I get off." Launches with a 1,500 foot rope were usually to about 1,400 feet. I'm sure my present 200 HP vehicle would launch an 1,100 lb gross glider with no problem but I would want a stronger rope than my present 1/4 inch dacron (Wings and Wheels $270). I have launched a friend's Ventus a few times with the Escape and he gets real good launches. With the Mini-Nimbus and a well worn rope, I would get some rope breaks. Larry Pardue 2I |
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