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#1
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Even Less Gloom?
From elsewhere to someone else from someone who was there... =============== George: The next time you bring something over from the CPA, bring THE WHOLE THING, please. Had you bothered to wait a little bit, you would have found that you were reading Jay's opinion, not a real news story. The official statement from Piper was posted by none other than me. Yeah, me. I spent most of Tuesday morning hiding from my boss so I could work the phones, call Piper and deal with aviation magazine editors because Jay waited 24 hours before he wrote down his thoughts, and GOT THE STORY WRONG. When Phil Boyer gets working the issue, you know it's getting a lot of attention. Now, for the speech. I was there. In fact, my job (volunteer job) at the National Cherokee Fly In (which evidently NONE of you attended) is to find, invite, and 'handle' the keynote speaker every year. Jay's summary of his speech is COMPLETELY his opinion of what Jim Bass said. I heard a different speech. We were both eating the same chicken and drinking the same iced tea, and we all heard a different speech. So did everyone I called on Tuesday morning to make sure I wasn't going whacko. Problem is, I spent Sunday flying 4 + hours back to Lock Haven to see the Piper Museum before I went home, Jay flew 1 hour back to Iowa and had time to post his OPINIONS. His opinions are his, and he's entitled to them. But, they ain't what Bass said. Jay's a wonderful guy and I look forward to seeing he and Mary every year, but he's NOT a reporter. He didn't take notes during the speech. Bass did say that he expected the useful life of 'future' aircraft to be less than 50 years. But, he wouldn't put a specific timeframe on it, and the comment was in context of the discussion of the PiperJet. He did say 25 years, but that was during a discussion of the average age of the Piper fleet. He was (quite rudely) challenged on that number, which he says comes directly from the insurance company, who oughta know, since they collect $ 2-3 M a year in premiums from Piper against lawsuits from those same airframes. The sad part here is that the CEO is a great guy (albeit not so great a public speaker) who is completely an engineer. He's into QA, customer satisfaction, and building new planes. He spoke about the subjects I asked him to, based on input from the organizing committee. He's doing a great job bringing the quality level up to meet customer expectations, while introducing new products, which Piper hasn't done since God knows when. Look at Cirrus and Cessna, and then look at the Piper website. EVERY SINGLE ONE of Piper's airframe designs is over 20 years old. I'd say the guy has his priorities right - get good new airplanes out the door, and keep the company solvent. That company can (as he said in his speech, but it wasn't reported) pull out the machines and crank out parts for older planes. They won't be cheap, he said, but we can do it. So, relax, get over it (as others said), and remember: There are no editors on the Internet. Think about that before you start forwarding messages from chat boards. As others have noted, if it ain't in the mainstream press (like AvWeb), it's probably not for a reason. Jane Fonda never handed the POW notes to the guards in Hanoi, the Arizona Highway Patrol never found a JATO-powered pickup truck jammed in a hillside, and Jim Bass never said he was cutting off parts for Cherokees at 25 years. Thanks, Dennis Dennis B. Boykin IV Chairman Leesburg Executive Airport Commission |
#2
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Even Less Gloom?
On 6/21/2007 8:03:59 PM, Mike Granby wrote:
The next time you bring something over from the CPA, bring THE WHOLE THING, please. Had you bothered to wait a little bit, you would have found that you were reading Jay's opinion, not a real news story. Hilarious. It seems as if Jay needs to brush up on his note taking skills, given is E.F. Hutton reputation (when he posts, people listen...er...read) in the aviation world. -- Peter |
#3
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Even Less Gloom?
"Peter R." wrote:
On 6/21/2007 8:03:59 PM, Mike Granby wrote: The next time you bring something over from the CPA, bring THE WHOLE THING, please. Had you bothered to wait a little bit, you would have found that you were reading Jay's opinion, not a real news story. Hilarious. It seems as if Jay needs to brush up on his note taking skills, given is E.F. Hutton reputation (when he posts, people listen...er...read) in the aviation world. Several questions from a neutral observer, trying to determine if Jay really "GOT THE STORY WRONG": 1) The quoted text appears to be the work of Dennis B. Boykin IV, not Mike Granby. So who really authored this and why wasn't it originally addressed to the forum on which Jay posted? 2) Jay also reported no Cherokee 140s showed up at the CPA. Is that also in dispute? 3) Is it now claimed that Bass did not spend half an hour on a Powerpoint presentation to a room full of Cherokee pilots, ignoring the alleged demographics of his audience? 4) Did or did not Bass state that Piper is not going to entering the light sport market? Did Jay get this wrong? 5) Is it claimed that there was no pointed or blunt post-speech questions of the specific nature that Jay mentioned? I can't see how the answers to the above vary depending on one's "opinion" but I suppose in some minds that is possible. |
#4
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Even Less Gloom?
"PR" == Peter R writes:
PR On 6/21/2007 8:03:59 PM, Mike Granby wrote: The next time you bring something over from the CPA, bring THE WHOLE THING, please. Had you bothered to wait a little bit, you would have found that you were reading Jay's opinion, not a real news story. PR Hilarious. It seems as if Jay needs to brush up on his note PR taking skills, given is E.F. Hutton reputation (when he posts, PR people listen...er...read) in the aviation world. Or readers need to brush up on their BS detection skills. Which is easy with Jay, he's kinda like Bill Clinton. How do you know when Jay is full of BS? When he's posting. -- Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it. Will Rogers |
#5
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Even Less Gloom?
The official statement from Piper was posted by none other than me.
Yeah, me. I spent most of Tuesday morning hiding from my boss so I could work the phones, call Piper and deal with aviation magazine editors because Jay waited 24 hours before he wrote down his thoughts, and GOT THE STORY WRONG. I have spoken with Dennis, on the Cherokee Chat, and I appreciate his delicate position as the man who cajoled Bass into speaking at the Cherokee Pilots Association convention. I have also spoken with the people who sat at my table during Bass' speech -- and I also spent several hours after the speech with folks in the bar. We all heard the same thing. Which isn't to say that Dennis got it wrong. As I've stated over and over, it was impossible to tell from his speech whether Bass was merely floating the idea of limiting parts support to newer aircraft, or whether he was actually announcing that this was to be Piper's new policy. Bass is a bean-counter, NOT a skilled public speaker, and none of us was able to precisely parse what he was trying to say. However, in the context of his further statements that, no, Piper would NOT license the production of older Piper parts to other companies (if they were to stop production themselves) what else could one possibly conclude? This much is clear: No one disputes the fact that Bass said that PIper would absolutely NOT license the production of older, out-of- production parts to any outside company, due to liability issues. This was said in the context of his previous, breath-taking assertions (so ineloquently stated) that Piper did not wish to support 25-year- old aircraft indefinitely, and was in answer to a question from a member of the crowd who had obviously heard the exact same thing I did. In my opinion, the asking of the question is proof-positive that Bass said what he said -- otherwise, why would anyone even ask the question? And why would Bass answer the way he did, if Piper had every intention of continuing parts support? . Here's the bottom line: Bass probably didn't say what he meant to say. God knows we've all been victimized by similar circumstances. His company spokesperson has clarified Piper's position, and it is in our favor. As far as I'm concerned, that's a "Good Thing". -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#6
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Even Less Gloom?
However, in
the context of his further statements that, no, Piper would NOT license the production of older Piper parts to other companies (if they were to stop production themselves) what else could one possibly conclude? Is there a tape? Jose -- You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#7
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Even Less Gloom?
("Jose" wrote)
Is there a tape? Some time the next day, at the hotel's front desk.... Some time the next day, at Piper headquarters..... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...mary_woods.jpg Hmm? They're both in on it. Oh my God! Jay is selling the Inn ...and buying Piper Pistons! Paul-Mont |
#8
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Even Less Gloom?
On Jun 21, 10:39 pm, Jim Logajan wrote:
1) The quoted text appears to be the work of Dennis B. Boykin IV, not Mike Granby. So who really authored this and why wasn't it originally addressed to the forum on which Jay posted? Someone (George) posted something about Jay's story on the CPA website, and someone else (Dennis) replied. I posted the reply here so that others might see another side of the story. |
#9
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Even Less Gloom?
On Jun 21, 11:21 pm, Jay Honeck wrote: Bass is a bean-counter, NOT a skilled public speaker Why do you say he's a bean-counter? Does he have an accountancy background, as opposed to the engineering one that Mr Boykin cites. Or do you simply assume that anyone running a corporation must be a bean- counter? |
#10
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Even Less Gloom?
Jay Honeck wrote:
Here's the bottom line: Bass probably didn't say what he meant to say. God knows we've all been victimized by similar circumstances. His company spokesperson has clarified Piper's position, and it is in our favor. What was clarified is the "current, public" message the company wants conveyed. Whether this is their "position" or not is something else. I'll bet what you heard was the real internal position, but they simply haven't decided yet how and when to make that position public. As far as I'm concerned, that's a "Good Thing". I'd say it is too soon to tell one way or the other. Matt |
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