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#1
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NTSB final reports
Does anyone know how to determine when a final NSB report would be
issued. I'm interested in the findings for the Areostar crash at Lakeway TX on Aug 04 (6 fatalities). |
#2
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NTSB final reports
"Tony" wrote in message
oups.com... Does anyone know how to determine when a final NSB report would be issued. I'm interested in the findings for the Areostar crash at Lakeway TX on Aug 04 (6 fatalities). I think you pretty much just have to keep checking periodically. Some accidents get a final report relatively soon, while others can take years and years to investigate. As far as I know, if the final report is not available on their web site, the NTSB has not published it at all. Pete |
#3
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NTSB final reports
Tony... some of the NTSB reports do not go final because of litigation..
although we all know that NTSB findings are "not to be used in court" (flame suit on) There are many factors in that accident.. I believe he had just refueled at that airport (bad gas?), statements made about being overweight (over gross or out of CG?), engine power problems? what in particular are you looking for? (I knew the pilot) BT "Tony" wrote in message oups.com... Does anyone know how to determine when a final NSB report would be issued. I'm interested in the findings for the Areostar crash at Lakeway TX on Aug 04 (6 fatalities). |
#4
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NTSB final reports
My friend, a non-pilot, lives in the Hills of Lakeway a few hundred
yards from the crash site. I have read the early NTSB report as I expect you have. Density altitude was less than 4,000, he had almost 4000 feet of runway and I think after clearing the trees at the end the land tends to go downward. I think the only fuel at Lakeway is 100 Octane low lead. Most of the time experienced pilots can make reasonable guesses as to what caused the accident, but I'm puzzled by this one. Two of the 6 pax were children, car seats were loaded aboad but they just aren't that heavy. Some pilot observers suggested he was not getting full power. I know the Ted Smith Aerostar has been said to be unforgiving, but have no direct experience with it. Interesting too that some people who were on the golf course claim the pilot tried to avoid them, but I understand he went in inverted at a steep angle into a retaining wall: it's likely the a/c was out of control. The house that had been damaged is on the market for $1.2 million (I think it was bought on speculation after the accident, repaired, several $100K of upgrades were added). The house has great golf course views, but I wonder how a realtor will answer questions if an airplane takes off over it (it's not too far off the extended centerline). The VFR SELs I saw last week seemed to turn base to final closer to the airport than the house's location. In any event, there hasn't been any final NTSB report issued: I'll keep watching. |
#5
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NTSB final reports
My friend, a non-pilot, lives in the Hills of Lakeway a few hundred
yards from the crash site. I have read the early NTSB report as I expect you have. Density altitude was less than 4,000, he had almost 4000 feet of runway and I think after clearing the trees at the end the land tends to go downward. I think the only fuel at Lakeway is 100 Octane low lead. Most of the time experienced pilots can make reasonable guesses as to what caused the accident, but I'm puzzled by this one. Two of the 6 pax were children, car seats were loaded aboad but they just aren't that heavy. Some pilot observers suggested he was not getting full power. I know the Ted Smith Aerostar has been said to be unforgiving, but have no direct experience with it. Interesting too that some people who were on the golf course claim the pilot tried to avoid them, but I understand he went in inverted at a steep angle into a retaining wall: it's likely the a/c was out of control. The house that had been damaged is on the market for $1.2 million (I think it was bought on speculation after the accident, repaired, several $100K of upgrades were added). The house has great golf course views, but I wonder how a realtor will answer questions if an airplane takes off over it (it's not too far off the extended centerline). The VFR SELs I saw last week seemed to turn base to final closer to the airport than the house's location. In any event, there hasn't been any final NTSB report issued: I'll keep watching. |
#6
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NTSB final reports
the aircraft is non forgiving
he was an experienced pilot with the Smith Aerostar the aircraft uses 100LL for fuel the engines are very fussy to spark plug fouling with any debris or contamination in the fuel or any fluctuations in the fuel pressure due to debris or contamination in the fuel turning base to final inside the location of the house. is much different than taking off over it "Tony" wrote in message oups.com... My friend, a non-pilot, lives in the Hills of Lakeway a few hundred yards from the crash site. I have read the early NTSB report as I expect you have. Density altitude was less than 4,000, he had almost 4000 feet of runway and I think after clearing the trees at the end the land tends to go downward. I think the only fuel at Lakeway is 100 Octane low lead. Most of the time experienced pilots can make reasonable guesses as to what caused the accident, but I'm puzzled by this one. Two of the 6 pax were children, car seats were loaded aboad but they just aren't that heavy. Some pilot observers suggested he was not getting full power. I know the Ted Smith Aerostar has been said to be unforgiving, but have no direct experience with it. Interesting too that some people who were on the golf course claim the pilot tried to avoid them, but I understand he went in inverted at a steep angle into a retaining wall: it's likely the a/c was out of control. The house that had been damaged is on the market for $1.2 million (I think it was bought on speculation after the accident, repaired, several $100K of upgrades were added). The house has great golf course views, but I wonder how a realtor will answer questions if an airplane takes off over it (it's not too far off the extended centerline). The VFR SELs I saw last week seemed to turn base to final closer to the airport than the house's location. In any event, there hasn't been any final NTSB report issued: I'll keep watching. |
#7
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NTSB final reports
I knew the Aerostar was unforgiving, didn't know the engines were.
I mentioned airplanes turning final inside the crash site to give some indication of its distance from the airport: the prelim report said it was about 2 miles. The PA 60 601P is pressurized/ turbocharged, isn't it? I know the IO 360 that pulled my Mooney around would have had to be leaned for max power at a density altitude of 4000 feet: do the blown IO 540's need the same treatment? The press suggested the a/c was overloaded, but car seats are bulky, not heavy, and the two kids were said to be in the back seats, so an aft CG shouldn't have been an issue. Most qualified observers of the crash suggested he wasn't getting full power, so your hint that fuel/plugs or some other engine related issue seems on the money. If the engines were not turbocharged I'd be betting improper leaning for the density altitude would have a factor, but have no experience at all with turbocharged engines. FWIW, there's no evidence at the crash site that anything happened the no soot and the house had been repaired. Along the highways here in the southeast, when there's a deadly accident someone often installs some form of marker as a reminder: flowers, a cross, or some other token. One must not compromise property values, I guess. The next time I play the Hills of Lakeway golf course I'll start erecting a small cairn: look for it, other aviator/golfers, and add a stone. We'll be the only ones to know what it means. |
#8
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NTSB final reports
Tony wrote:
If the engines were not turbocharged I'd be betting improper leaning for the density altitude would have a factor, but have no experience at all with turbocharged engines. FWIW, the mixture of my turbo-normalized Bonanza is not leaned for a high-density airport take off. Doing so results in higher than desired CHT and turbo-inlet temperatures (TIT), which is not a healthy scenario for the engine that is delivering full horsepower. By no means am I a turbo expert, but had the Aerostar in this accident been equipped with turbocharged engines, I would be surprised to learn that it would need to be leaned for a density altitude take-off of only 4,000 feet. -- Peter |
#9
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NTSB final reports
"BTIZ" wrote in message news:APptf.2718$V.2712@fed1read04... the aircraft is non forgiving he was an experienced pilot with the Smith Aerostar the aircraft uses 100LL for fuel the engines are very fussy to spark plug fouling with any debris or contamination in the fuel or any fluctuations in the fuel pressure due to debris or contamination in the fuel turning base to final inside the location of the house. is much different than taking off over it The press here in Oklahoma wasn't very kind to the pilot. The news story ran in the paper for several days as the family that perished was a young and upcoming and had a very successful business. IIRC, the pilot had been in trouble with the FAA, for running a 135 operation illegally. I believe he operated out of Wiley Post, (PWA). He also had some prior accidents. One in which the aircraft landed long and hot and ran through a chain link fence. Another time he ran out of fuel. It seems he also scared some passengers by flying in the mountains in below vfr conditions and nearly hitting terrain. I could be wrong about some of this. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#10
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NTSB final reports
He was not operating a 135 operation illegally.. (as far as I know) .
He was operating a part 91 fractional ownership legally (as far as I know). Many other 135 operators from OKC area complained to the Fed's which opened up an investigation which I believe cleared that issue. I only knew of his landing short with no fuel incident from a personal conversation with him.. I do not know of the others. BT "JJS" jschneider@remove socks cebridge.net wrote in message ... "BTIZ" wrote in message news:APptf.2718$V.2712@fed1read04... the aircraft is non forgiving he was an experienced pilot with the Smith Aerostar the aircraft uses 100LL for fuel the engines are very fussy to spark plug fouling with any debris or contamination in the fuel or any fluctuations in the fuel pressure due to debris or contamination in the fuel turning base to final inside the location of the house. is much different than taking off over it The press here in Oklahoma wasn't very kind to the pilot. The news story ran in the paper for several days as the family that perished was a young and upcoming and had a very successful business. IIRC, the pilot had been in trouble with the FAA, for running a 135 operation illegally. I believe he operated out of Wiley Post, (PWA). He also had some prior accidents. One in which the aircraft landed long and hot and ran through a chain link fence. Another time he ran out of fuel. It seems he also scared some passengers by flying in the mountains in below vfr conditions and nearly hitting terrain. I could be wrong about some of this. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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