ADS-B Update

On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 6:44:26 AM UTC-8, Jeff Morgan wrote:
On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 10:28:50 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:

In an experimental glider you can use a TN72 to meet full 2020 Compliance if you choose to, that's the "SIL=3" install documented in the TN72 installation guide. For type certified gliders an actual TSO-C145c GPS source is required like the TN70.


Ok, so where does that leave a glider with an Experimental glider with a Trig 21?

I think I can reasonably avoid places like Reno and Spokane for now, just want other aircraft to see me.

Just about $900 short of compliance?

On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 9:35:38 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:

Just about $900 short of compliance?


That's what it is starting to sound like.

On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 9:28:50 PM UTC-8, Darryl Ramm wrote:
That's not quite correct, well not for experimental aircraft. I realize your ASH26E is type certified, but lets not make hard statements that don't apply to all cases. I tried to cover the full situation in the link that started this thread.

In an experimental glider you can use a TN72 to meet full 2020 Compliance if you choose to, that's the "SIL=3" install documented in the TN72 installation guide. For type certified gliders an actual TSO-C145c GPS source is required like the TN70.



l On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 4:26:05 PM UTC-8, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 3:50:17 PM UTC-8, Paul Remde wrote:
Hi,

I have added Goddard wiring harnesses for the TN70 and TN72 to my web site. There are complete harnesses for new installations - with connections for the TT22, TC20 display head, and TN70 or TN72.

There are also new wiring harnesses that make it easy to add a TN70 or TN72 GPS to an existing TT22 transponder installation. The new wiring harness is designed to be inserted between the TT22 and the existing TT22 wiring harness. It has a DB-25m connector for connection to the TT22, a DB-25f connector for connection to the existing TT22 wiring harness, and DB-25f for connection to the TN70 GPS or DB-9f connector for connection to a TN72.

I have also added antenna cables for connecting a TN70 or TN72 to a TA70 GPS antenna.

Details are available on my Trig web page:
http://cumulus-soaring.com/trig.htm

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
____________________________________________

On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 3:48:05 AM UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
It must be time for some more ADS-B posts, either that or we can talk about PW5 :-)

With the ~$350 street price Trig TN72 GPS source now available in the USA I wanted to revisit my understanding of the situation with ADS-B Out in gliders. I wrote a forum post for local Northern California pilots but it probably helps lots of other folks in the USA. See https://www.williamssoaring.com/news...er-this-Winter

---

And specifically I want to correct some doubt/misinformation I've helped spread here before about the Trig TN72 GPS source when it was first announced. The TN72 is either (depending on how it is configured in the paired transponder) a:

1. TABS/TSO-C199 GPS source (with SIL=1)

*or*

2. A "meets performance requirement of TSO-C145c" GPS source (language I prefer, although Trig may say it differently) (with SIL=3)

(OK the TN72 can also do plain NMEA (with SIL=0), but that's not intersting here).

A little more details and the implications of this is described in post linked to above.

It would be great for folks doing 1090ES Out installs to share their experiences. Here, or contact me directly,

I am happy to try to answer questions.

I'm also planning to give a few talks on ADS-B (and FLARM and Transponders) over the next few months, certainly on the West Coast, details later.

Darryl

A big issue for me is that installing a TN72 and, if necessary, an appropriate transponder will not make you ADS-B Out compliant; it only provides compliance with TABS. TABS gives you the ability to transmit position data to ATC and other aircraft, which is a good thing. But it will not give you access to control zones requiring ADS-B Out, basically any control zone requiring Mode C now. To comply with ADS-B Out you would need the TN70, which is a much larger (and more expensive) unit than the TN72. I don't mind the cost, but the size is a killer. I am inclined to wait and see if the FAA allows TABS aircraft into the ADS-B zones in two years. Of course, if you never intend to fly in these areas you don't care. Personally the only areas of any interest to me is Reno and Spokane.

Tom

I found this in Trig's TN72 brochu

The TN72 is great for glider pilots to powered pilots. Certified
aircraft can use the TN72 as an ADS-B position source where
equipage is voluntary. As an example, in North America pilots
who wish to trigger a full traffic information service on ADS-B
In equipment can use the TN72 outside of designated ADS-B
airspace.

The key phrase is "where equipage is voluntary."
Tom

I have no idea what point you are trying to make or what you are responding to. What information in my original link is not clear or in accurate and why?

On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 5:51:42 PM UTC-8, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I have no idea what point you are trying to make or what you are responding to. What information in my original link is not clear or in accurate and why?

You wrote that I could not put a TN72 into my certified glider. That is incorrect per this brochure.
Tom

On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 8:55:31 PM UTC-8, 2G wrote:
On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 5:51:42 PM UTC-8, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I have no idea what point you are trying to make or what you are responding to. What information in my original link is not clear or in accurate and why?

You wrote that I could not put a TN72 into my certified glider. That is incorrect per this brochure.
Tom

Darryl's post doesn't say such a thing - not even close.

He does say (selected extract below)

1. All gliders can install a TT21 or TT22 transponder with a TN72 to be used as a "TABS" (Traffic Awareness Beacon System) device.....These installations cannot be used to comply with 2020 ADS-B Out mandates...but is visible to PowerFLARM 1090ES In... ....likely over many tens of miles, is visible to ATC ....is visible to certified panel mount ADS-B In traffic systems, and will make the aircraft an ADS-R or TIS-B client for ADS-B ground services (but which PowerFLARM can't receive).

2. Certified gliders that want to meet the 2020 ADS-B Out mandate can't use a TN-72 for that....They would require a Trig TN-70 actual TSO-C145c GPS source....

Reads petty clear to me and is consistent with the quoted text from Trig.

So yes, you can put a TN72 into your certified glider but you still cannot fly into ADSB designated airspace, only in areas where equipage is voluntary [for a glider].

David