Ethanol Powered Aircraft

Morgans wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote
The only problem with that point of view, is that every energy
transformation and use carries a penalty of a percentage of the energy being
lost.

If the penalty is less than the gain, it's a win. There is a penalty
for producing electricity on the edge of town and wiring it to your
house vs. having your own home generator. Most of us decided that the
gain of using municipal power outweighs the penalty of having to pipe
it to our house (in which it losses power in the transit).

-Robert

On 16 Aug 2006 11:13:08 -0700, "Bret Ludwig"
wrote:
The point is, it's a short term fix anyway. If the oil gets so scarce
a small quantity is needed truly at any cost, then get it there. Not
now. Let oil go high enough to get alternatives capitalized, with a
price floor if necessary, lest the Saudis pull the rug out from under
the billion dollar investments needed.

I think that we need to develop fusion reactors so that we can cheaply
make hydrogen... Once we no longer need the oil from the Middle East,
the rich camel ****in' Bedoins can go back to being what they have
been throughout history -- POOR camel ****in' Bedoins... Without the
money from the oil, terrorism will not be able to be financed...
Problem solved...

Fusion reactors use hydrogen as fuel to make helium plus energy. It is
almost impossible to "make" hydrogen, although you can liberate it from a
compound (i.e. electrolysis of water).

Jim



I think that we need to develop fusion reactors so that we can cheaply
make hydrogen...

No, he was quite clear about a FUSION reactor. A fusion reactor takes two
hydrogen atoms and fuses them together into helium plus energy. Now you
could take that energy and convert it into electricity to electrolyze water,
but what's the point? The electrical energy is what we need, not hydrogen.

Jim



"T o d d P a t t i s t" wrote in message
...
"RST Engineering" wrote:
I think that we need to develop fusion reactors so that we can cheaply
make hydrogen...
Fusion reactors use hydrogen as fuel to make helium plus energy. It is
almost impossible to "make" hydrogen, although you can liberate it from a
compound (i.e. electrolysis of water).

I think that's what he meant - use nuclear to create
electricity for electrolysis of water to produce a hydrogen
supply as an energy storage medium to be burned elsewhere -
with water as the combustion product.

Grumman-581 wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:40:25 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote:
Perhaps 23,437.5 square miles, or an area 153 miles on a side, is
easier to visualize. :-)

In other words, a medium sized Texas ranch...

Or to be more to the point, about 1/10th the size of all of
little ol' Texas itself. Obviously there aren't any ranches in
Texas anything near that size. The 1002 Area of ANWR absolutely
dwarfs the largest ranch in Texas. It dwarfs at least the two
largest ranches *combined*. I didn't try to see, but it is possible
that all ranches in Texas put together might actually equal the size
of the 1002 Area in ANWR...

Somewhat larger than a few states. About the size of West
Virginia, and larger than 9 states to be specific.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:07:03 -0700, "RST Engineering"
wrote:
Fusion reactors use hydrogen as fuel to make helium plus energy. It is
almost impossible to "make" hydrogen, although you can liberate it from a
compound (i.e. electrolysis of water).

Exactly... Inefficient, but with since it only needs water as a fuel
and we have *plenty* of that, a bit of inefficiency might be
acceptable...

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:42:47 -0800, (Floyd L.
Davidson) wrote:
Or to be more to the point, about 1/10th the size of all of
little ol' Texas itself. Obviously there aren't any ranches in
Texas anything near that size. The 1002 Area of ANWR absolutely
dwarfs the largest ranch in Texas. It dwarfs at least the two
largest ranches *combined*. I didn't try to see, but it is possible
that all ranches in Texas put together might actually equal the size
of the 1002 Area in ANWR...

Awh 'ell, if ya gonna bring *facts* into this conversation, I'm not
playin' anymore... grin

Next ya gonna tell me that I can't propagate the Texas stereotypes...
Hell, you might even try to claim that someplace other than Texas
knows how to do *real* BBQ...

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:32:27 -0700, "RST Engineering"
wrote:
No, he was quite clear about a FUSION reactor. A fusion reactor takes two
hydrogen atoms and fuses them together into helium plus energy. Now you
could take that energy and convert it into electricity to electrolyze water,
but what's the point? The electrical energy is what we need, not hydrogen.

Does your plane run on electricity? Do you think that it will be
possible anytime soon to make it run on electricity? On the other
hand, do you think that it could probably be modified with existing
technology to run on hydrogen? Probably, but the problem with
hydrogen is that it needs to be kept either *very* cold or under quite
a bit of pressure to equal the energy per volume that we get out of
gasoline... Perhaps hydrogen could be converted into a liquid type of
fuel by adding some carbon to it? From what I remember, all the
various petrochemical type fuels are basically just a combination of
carbon and hydrogen...

Grumman-581 wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:42:47 -0800, (Floyd L.
Davidson) wrote:
Or to be more to the point, about 1/10th the size of all of
little ol' Texas itself. Obviously there aren't any ranches in
Texas anything near that size. The 1002 Area of ANWR absolutely
dwarfs the largest ranch in Texas. It dwarfs at least the two
largest ranches *combined*. I didn't try to see, but it is possible
that all ranches in Texas put together might actually equal the size
of the 1002 Area in ANWR...

Awh 'ell, if ya gonna bring *facts* into this conversation, I'm not
playin' anymore... grin

Next ya gonna tell me that I can't propagate the Texas stereotypes...
Hell, you might even try to claim that someplace other than Texas
knows how to do *real* BBQ...

I wasn't going to tell any Texas jokes... really I wasn't.

I did visit Houston once, and rather liked it. Just like
Prudhoe Bay... except for all the Texans, that's some nice
country. We drove by the Museum of Texas History, and they told
me it was a great demonstration of everything good about Texas!
I asked the folks I was with if we could schedule at least half
an hour there the next day.

They asked why I'd want to see everything more than twice.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

In article ,
Jose wrote:

I have to agree, trying to obtain energy from corn is stupid when far
better crops readily exist. Trying to make it work with corn only
translates into higher prices at the end of the day.

... which is probably the =real= agenda.

Of course it isQ
Archer-Daniels-Midland doesn't throw all that money at the politicians
in Washington because it likes them.