Flaps on take-off and landing

In article ,
says...
Thomas Borchert writes:

Listen, if you don't want to fly, so be it. But don't try to
rationalize it.

If you want to fly, so be it. But don't try to say that it's not
extremely expensive.

It's not extremely expensive. Oops, I said it.

Please define extremely expensive.

Here in NZ, it costs a couple hundred to get a medical, and say $150/hr
to fly a plane ("wet" cost, ie you don't pay extra for fuel etc).

--
Duncan

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news
Marty Shapiro writes:

No, you simply raise or lower the seat as appropriate.

Is it a power seat, or do you have to crank it manually, or do you
have to get off the seat to adjust it, or what?

In your case, press the pause button, stand up, and spin the seat until it
is at the height you want.



--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

mike regish wrote:
I've read that the U2 (or is it U-2) has a 4 knot speed range at altitude.
Too fast, you get mach buffet-too slow, you stall.

mike

Yup, I have a friend who flew a U-2 and he described that very same
thing. I think the exact numbers were 93 knots and 97 knots (indicated
at 70,000'), but my memory might be failing me.

Margy
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

mike regish writes:


I've only heard of the "coffin corner" in reference to helicopter flight.

The U-2 is famous for its coffin corner, and some other aircraft have
one as well.

--
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Mxsmanic wrote:
Margy Natalie writes:


If you want to fly in a tin can go commercial. Why would I want to ride
in a Greyhound bus when I can drive my Audi?


That doesn't answer my question. How much would it cost to rent a 737
instead of a tiny plastic plane? Just because you prefer a tiny plane
for your leisure doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same way.

In reality, I don't know of any practical way to fly large jets in
real life for pleasure. Even John Travolta doesn't seem to get around
much in his 707, and it's a crusty old airframe compared to the modern
aircraft that some of us might prefer to fly (I'm sure he had to
compromise, as I don't think he really prefers the 707 to more recent
equipment).

That's the same as saying I can't afford to own a car because who would
want a POS Audi when a Rolls is really the only choice! You seem to
want everyone to think flying is only for the rich and famous, when in
reality it's for anyone who wants to make it a reality. No, you can't
have a 747, but you can't have a Rolls either. If you drive a ****box
you might have to fly an ultra-light, if you have the Rolls you might
have a G-4. Who would want a 747, they are old and big and lumber
through the skies. BTW Travolta used to have a Connie, now that was a
cool plane.

Margy

Marty Shapiro wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote in
:


Marty Shapiro writes:


The IRS allows 47.5 cents/mile as the cost to operate a car if its
use is tax deductible.

You use IRS figures for the car, but not for the plane. How much does
the IRS allow for operating a plane instead of a car?



I've never found a direct answer for the IRS allowance for private air
travel. Whenever I rent an aircraft for an Angel Flight, I get to deduct
the entire cost of the rental.

I found a University (California I think) that allows 44.5 cents for
cars, 99.5 for personal aircraft. I think this is close to federal.

Marty Shapiro wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote in
:


Marty Shapiro writes:


The IRS allows 47.5 cents/mile as the cost to operate a car if its
use is tax deductible.

You use IRS figures for the car, but not for the plane. How much does
the IRS allow for operating a plane instead of a car?



I've never found a direct answer for the IRS allowance for private air
travel. Whenever I rent an aircraft for an Angel Flight, I get to deduct
the entire cost of the rental.


Found the Federal reimbursements.

Margy




For use of a Your reimbursement is

§301-10.266 Is information available to the public about travel on
Government aircraft by senior Federal officials and non-Federal travelers?


Privately owned aircraft
(e.g., helicopter, except an airplane).


Actual cost of operation
(i.e., fuel, oil, plus the additional expenses listed in §301-10.304).

Yes, an agency that authorizes travel on Government air- craft and an
agency that owns or hires Government aircraft must make records about
travelers on those aircraft available to the public in response to
written requests under the Free- dom of Information Act (5 U.S.C. 552),
except for portions

Privately owned airplane. 1 1.07
Privately owned automobile. 1 0.405
Privately owned motorcycle. 1 0.305

1 Per mile.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Peter Duniho writes:


Here is where I find myself agreeing with the people that say you make a LOT
of supposedly factual statements about flying that are based on faulty
information. That is, your believe that a computer simulation (and
Microsoft Flight Simulator in particular) is accurate enough for you to
actually know what you're talking about when it comes to flying.


It's not really based on Flight Simulator. It's based on a common
complaint I've heard from people who are contemplating a real pilot's
license.


Please, you do NOT know what you are talking about when it comes to
*flying*. Piloting a sim, I'm sure you know lots. But you consistently get
it wrong when you try to apply that experience to real flying. You would do
well to leave your assumptions behind, and restrict yourself to asking
questions.


You would do well to leave your personal attacks behind, and restrict
yourself to answering questions. There are plenty of people who
specialize in the former, and very few qualified to handle the latter.

I think you are being overly sensitive. Many of the things you say are
a "common complaint you've heard ..." are absolutely UNTRUE. I'm SHORT,
in a 172 I use a booster seat, but not in the Navion. I can see
everything!! You can see as much of the runway in front of you as you
can from the car.

You might know sims, but you don't know airplanes, nor do you understand
the real costs of flying, although I have heard it is more expensive in
Europe.

Margy

Mxsmanic wrote:
Roger (K8RI) writes:


I love airplanes and we are on the centerline for the GPS 06 approach
to 3BS and about a mile and a half in from the FAF. Even when working
in the shop I still have to run outside to see what's going over.


I like to watch aircraft, too. I sorely miss the days when you could
go to the airport and walk up to the roof or observation deck to watch
planes take off and arrive. Nowadays, it seems you're a terrorist if
you manifest any interest in aircraft. I never understood what danger
there was in letting people watch. Even people who take pictures from
outside the airport are considered terrorists these days.


On landing I generally run 10 down wind.15 to 20 on base, and about 30
until the runway is made and then it's full flaps whether it's windy
of calm, gusty or steady. The only time I don't use full flaps is the
one or two landings I do every few weeks with no flaps.


Why do you do those landings without flaps?

Gee, at Reagan (Washington National) you can lay on your back in the
Gravely Point Park and watch the planes fly about 100' above you on
approach.

Margy

Marc Adler wrote:
Thomas Borchert wrote:


No, he can't. A long history of postings shows that's not in his
repertoire (sp?).


(Correct spelling.) That's a relief, because if you just rent aircraft,
you don't have to worry about anything but rental charges and gas,
right? In other words, insurance, maintenance, etc., are all the
responsibility of the rental agent (the FBO?), right?

I'm completely new to this, but it doesn't seem to me like owning is
such a great proposition if you're just a recreational flyer. Aside
from the cost of the plane itself (min. $50K, right?)

Depends on what you own. If you want fast, etc. you are spending a few
$$, but if you are handy, have a nice A&P to supervise you (and have the
time to do your own work), and don't mind a slower, smaller aircraft you
can do quite well. I know people with lots of $$ with nice aircraft and
I know people with considerably fewer assets with nicer aircraft, but
they spend lots of time.

you've got to pay
for maintenance, repairs, insurance, taxes, parking, etc., etc., etc.
The operating costs have got to pile up real fast.

We used to base at Dulles (was $125 to tie-down, now it's over $350,
moved to Culpeper in a hangar for $200). I used to help out a lot on
maintenance, but time became more valuable than $$. There are ways to
make it cheaper.
I don't know why a
recreational flyer would want to own. Plus, if you don't own, you can
fly lots of different planes.

I like my plane, I don't need to fly lots of different planes. My plane
is always there when I want it. I can take it for the weekend whenever
I want. If it's broke, I broke it and know it.

As I say, though, I'm completely new to this, and this is an uninformed
opinion, so I welcome all responses.

It's great to own (cheaper to rent unless you fly 100 hrs/yr)

Margy

Marc

Mxsmanic wrote:
Margy Natalie writes:

Who said the handle is small? Some of these "handles" are 2 - 3 feet long.

Where are they in the cockpit? I haven't seen many small cockpits; is
there a picture on the Net of one that has this kind of lever? It
sounds like it would be awkward to use in flight.

I go by what I've seen in the handful of pictures of cockpits that
I've encountered. Most of these are of jet aircraft, and the flap
lever is longer than most but hardly long enough to provide much
leverage.


The lever arm for the flap handle in our RV-6 is something like two feet
long. It works just like a parking brake, though the forces are higher
(20lb maybe, up to 30+ when going to full).

As for the other control surfaces--the stick is directly connected (via
pushrods) to the ailerons and elevator. Even in flight, it takes a
maximum of one finger and your thumb to move the control surface and
make the airplane respond. It's not twitchy--the controls are just
light and easy to manipulate.

In pretty much every jet aircraft I can think of, the flap handle just
manipulates some sort of rotary sensor or microswitch that tells the
flaps where to go.