Jeppeson

"Blanche" wrote in message
...

And, Jepp handles the world. When I use the term CAA, that's the generic
for any country's aviation authority. In the US, it's the FAA. There's
also the JAA, and others.

The advantage of living in the Denver area - Jepp is located just
west of the 17-35 runway of KAPA. When you decide to visit, I'll
happily arrange a tour.


And on the other side of the street is the 5th hole at Inverness Golf Club,
a beautiful par 3 of about 175-180 yards over the water...

Ahhhh, memories!!!

Mxsmanic wrote:

All that, plus a 95% mark-up for profit.

Jepp would be doing better if it were.


Oh yeah, it's such a profitable business that Google and every
other computer company is clamoring to get into the biz.

It's not a free market.

How so? It's certainly possible for others to get into it.
Howie Keefe was in the printed chart business for years both
in reproducing the government charts and in producing his
own charts when the government didn't have something
comparable.

There are any number of people doing EFB and GPS-on-PDA
and GPS-on-computer products using combinations of
government and self produced data.

All you gotta do is get your data in line and convince
Garmin and the other manufacturers that it would be in
their best interest to either switch to you or offer
the customers a choice.

On Apr 5, 10:10 am, Blanche wrote:
Blanche writes:

[useless excretions snipped]

Actually, there is. 1/4 of the first floor of the main offices is
dedicated to an extremely human-labor-intensive activity that must
validate and verify *each and every* item of information when it
comes in from the various CAAs. I didn't notice any "white-haired scribes",
oh wait -- yes, there were a couple of gentlemen that might be offended
at the term.

Then the data is verified and validated a *second* time.
Add to this the time constraints - there are four cycles of
7/14/28/56 days depending on need. Then and only then can the data
be converted to the JAD - Jeppesen Aviation Database, from which
all Jepp data is munged.

Every time an airport changes a frequency, identifier, phone number,
runways, departure procedures, approach procedures, terminal information,
fixes (intrument, visual, GPS), low-enroute, high-enroute, *anything*.
And it happens more frequently than most people realize imagine.

And, Jepp handles the world. When I use the term CAA, that's the generic
for any country's aviation authority. In the US, it's the FAA. There's
also the JAA, and others.

The advantage of living in the Denver area - Jepp is located just
west of the 17-35 runway of KAPA. When you decide to visit, I'll
happily arrange a tour.

I was there the week of the 19th for the RAA Flt. Tech. Cmte
conference. Impressive facility.

The president came in for a quick brief to us, and someone in the
audience asked him why the electronic versions are not cheaper than
hardcopy. What you indicate above concurs exactly what he said wrt
format conversions, V&V, etc. being the bulk of the process.

Regards,
Jon

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Blanche writes:

Not really. Creating the distribution media is pushing the button. But
acquiring the data from the appropriate CAA (civil aeronautical
agency), verifying & validating it, then ensuring it's in a format
suitable for distribution for the corresponding hardware/software...

That's what you're really paying for.

Over, and over, and over, even though it's a one-time conversion, highly
automated, that costs very little. There are no white-haired scribes
transferring data from one sheet of parchment to another, even though the
final product is priced as though there were.



Ahhh.....just one more of the many concepts well beyond your apparently
crippled ability to read, comprend and understand. Special thanks for TODAYS
reminder.

Let's simplify for the benefit of the poster. Forget all the details about
updates, liability and approvals. In the American system of free enterprise,
there are enough innovative and hard working people, that if any one could
offer the same service and cut the price by setteling 90% profits, you could
find a phone book full of vendors offering the same service. Gee... I wonder
why you can't?

But then again, if it's that easy, and we all know you are so damned smart -
spend a little less time guiding tourists and flying your sim, and start
your on service. Surely with even 85% profits, you could live, eat and still
get your PPL in France. We'll be watching for it.

Blanche writes:

Actually, there is. 1/4 of the first floor of the main offices is
dedicated to an extremely human-labor-intensive activity that must
validate and verify *each and every* item of information when it
comes in from the various CAAs.

How do they do that from a desk?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Kev writes:

Don't they wish. Updates have to be compiled, verified manually and
then checked again. You're talking about things like the change in
elevation of a tower you could run into, for example, so lives are at
stake. They have to be put in the correct chart, and perhaps other
markings moved around. And that's just a tiny piece compared to all
the frequency, runway, nav aid, taxiway, etc changes each cycle.

Anyone who's spent their evening doing the update sheet dance with
their paper binder, knows a minor part of the pain from the end user
standpoint ;-)

So what are their actual margins? What do you get for $760, how much does it
cost them to produce it, and how many people are paying that amount?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On Apr 5, 8:55 am, "Jon" wrote:
On Apr 5, 10:10 am, Blanche wrote:





Blanche writes:

[useless excretions snipped]

Actually, there is. 1/4 of the first floor of the main offices is
dedicated to an extremely human-labor-intensive activity that must
validate and verify *each and every* item of information when it
comes in from the various CAAs. I didn't notice any "white-haired scribes",
oh wait -- yes, there were a couple of gentlemen that might be offended
at the term.

Then the data is verified and validated a *second* time.
Add to this the time constraints - there are four cycles of
7/14/28/56 days depending on need. Then and only then can the data
be converted to the JAD - Jeppesen Aviation Database, from which
all Jepp data is munged.

Every time an airport changes a frequency, identifier, phone number,
runways, departure procedures, approach procedures, terminal information,
fixes (intrument, visual, GPS), low-enroute, high-enroute, *anything*.
And it happens more frequently than most people realize imagine.

And, Jepp handles the world. When I use the term CAA, that's the generic
for any country's aviation authority. In the US, it's the FAA. There's
also the JAA, and others.

The advantage of living in the Denver area - Jepp is located just
west of the 17-35 runway of KAPA. When you decide to visit, I'll
happily arrange a tour.

I was there the week of the 19th for the RAA Flt. Tech. Cmte
conference. Impressive facility.

The president came in for a quick brief to us, and someone in the
audience asked him why the electronic versions are not cheaper than
hardcopy. What you indicate above concurs exactly what he said wrt
format conversions, V&V, etc. being the bulk of the process.

Regards,
Jon- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Nothing that a little competition couldn't solve.

-Robert

On Apr 5, 3:28 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Ron Natalie writes:
And paying engineers to design the software that backs up pushing the
button. Maintaining a cartography staff to handle the fact that there
are holes in the government provided data. Maintaining 24/7 customer
support for people who can't figure out how to download the data. Oh,
and paying for liability insurance or self insuring in case someone
gets a judgement. Oh and maintaining legal counsel to defend against
a number of lawsuits pending against them at any given time claiming
they were responsible for real or perceived responsibility in an
accident.

All that, plus a 95% mark-up for profit.

Oh yeah, it's such a profitable business that Google and every
other computer company is clamoring to get into the biz.

It's not a free market.

Oh herre's a surprise; you're wrong again:


Bertei

On Apr 5, 6:07 am, Ron Natalie wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
Aluckyguess writes:

Jeppeson sure has a nice little monopoly going. $760.00 to get the updates
for my mx 20 and Apollo 60 GPS.
Dang.

And the margins are probably around 99.9999%, since generating an update
probably requires no more than pressing a button.

And paying engineers to design the software that backs up pushing the
button. Maintaining a cartography staff to handle the fact that there
are holes in the government provided data. Maintaining 24/7 customer
support for people who can't figure out how to download the data. Oh,
and paying for liability insurance or self insuring in case someone
gets a judgement. Oh and maintaining legal counsel to defend against
a number of lawsuits pending against them at any given time claiming
they were responsible for real or perceived responsibility in an
accident.

Oh yeah, it's such a profitable business that Google and every
other computer company is clamoring to get into the biz.

I don't believe the interface is open. No one else can get into the
biz. This is what generated several law suites against Atari and
Intellivision when I was a kid. Someone just needs to challenge them
in court to open these interfaces on the basis of anti-trust.

-Robert

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Kev writes:

Don't they wish. Updates have to be compiled, verified manually and
then checked again. You're talking about things like the change in
elevation of a tower you could run into, for example, so lives are at
stake. They have to be put in the correct chart, and perhaps other
markings moved around. And that's just a tiny piece compared to all
the frequency, runway, nav aid, taxiway, etc changes each cycle.

Anyone who's spent their evening doing the update sheet dance with
their paper binder, knows a minor part of the pain from the end user
standpoint ;-)

So what are their actual margins? What do you get for $760, how much does
it
cost them to produce it, and how many people are paying that amount?


Why, you would just argue with it.