Oral exam place and questions

JGalban via AviationKB.com writes:

As I recall, the PTS had a
requrement that the flight plan must be completed in 30 min. Later on (in
the rule overhaul of '96, IIRC), they dropped the 30 min. time limit.

Why was there ever a time limit? Presumably you prepare flight plans in
advance, and it's not a race against the clock, but something you do
deliberately and carefully, however long it takes.

--
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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

snip
If I'm asked how long it will take to go 84 nm at 120 kts, I know that
it's
about 40 minutes, but if an exact answer is required I don't see how I
could
practically provide that without a calculator.

your kidding! 120 kts = 2 nm /min exactly 84 nm = 42 min exactly

and even if it wasnt a nice round number , didnt you ever learn long
devision in primary school?

Personally I do most of my flight planning in Excel. but if I havent got a
computer with me, I always have a calculator in my flight bag.
For doing calculations in the copckpit , I do it all mentally. In all my
flying ( 200 hrs) I have never used a calculator or whizwheel in the air.
If say I have to do a diversion , I estimate distance off the map using the
old rule of thumb and I know my TAS in nm/min. I might use a protractor to
measure the
track, if I am not particularly busy, but normally I can estimate the track
with 10 degrees off the map which is usually accurate enough, when you have
adequate landmarks. I carry a GPS with me but only for "just in case"
terry

d&tm writes:

your kidding! 120 kts = 2 nm /min exactly 84 nm = 42 min exactly

That probably would not occur to me during the stress of an exam.

and even if it wasnt a nice round number , didnt you ever learn long
devision in primary school?

Yes, long ago. I never liked it, and I did it with pencil and paper, not in
my head.

Personally I do most of my flight planning in Excel. but if I havent got a
computer with me, I always have a calculator in my flight bag.

I guess nobody uses slide rules any more.

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JGalban via AviationKB.com wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:


Traditionally the students were told what calculations to do ahead of
time and would arrive with a flight plan, W&B, performance, balanced
field, etc asked for by the DE the night before the ride.

Really? I don't remember that tradition. I took my ride in '88
and at that time, the DE would (maybe) tell you where the pseudo
cross country was going to go. On the day of the examination, you
were required to do the flight plan right there in front of the DE.
As I recall, the PTS had a requrement that the flight plan must be
completed in 30 min. Later on (in the rule overhaul of '96, IIRC),
they dropped the 30 min. time limit.


Not in '79 or '96 either.

In '79 when I did my PPL I'd never met or talked to my DE before I flew down
to take the check ride. In '95 when I got my helicopter rating the DE was
himself being examined by an FAA examiner. I had been talking to the FAA guy
before I started and he knew I already had my PPL and that this was just an
add-on.

When the DE started asking questions about navigation the FAA guy stopped
him and said don't ask those. It shortend the check out considerably.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

JGalban via AviationKB.com writes:

As I recall, the PTS had a
requrement that the flight plan must be completed in 30 min. Later
on (in the rule overhaul of '96, IIRC), they dropped the 30 min. time
limit.

Why was there ever a time limit? Presumably you prepare flight plans
in advance, and it's not a race against the clock, but something you
do deliberately and carefully, however long it takes.

How would you know? You've never prepared an instrument flight plan..


You are an idiot.


Bertie

On Apr 10, 12:19 pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

Traditionally the students were told what calculations to do ahead of
time and would arrive with a flight plan, W&B, performance, balanced
field, etc asked for by the DE the night before the ride.

Really? I don't remember that tradition. I took my ride in '88 and at
that time, the DE would (maybe) tell you where the pseudo cross country was
going to go. On the day of the examination, you were required to do the
flight plan right there in front of the DE. As I recall, the PTS had a
requrement that the flight plan must be completed in 30 min. Later on (in
the rule overhaul of '96, IIRC), they dropped the 30 min. time limit.

You must be really old. Since the late 90's all the DE's I've worked
with have called the CFI the night before and assigned a cross country
along with the DE's weight.

-Robert

On Apr 10, 12:56 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:
JGalban via AviationKB.com wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

Traditionally the students were told what calculations to do ahead of
time and would arrive with a flight plan, W&B, performance, balanced
field, etc asked for by the DE the night before the ride.

Really? I don't remember that tradition. I took my ride in '88
and at that time, the DE would (maybe) tell you where the pseudo
cross country was going to go. On the day of the examination, you
were required to do the flight plan right there in front of the DE.
As I recall, the PTS had a requrement that the flight plan must be
completed in 30 min. Later on (in the rule overhaul of '96, IIRC),
they dropped the 30 min. time limit.

Not in '79 or '96 either.

In '79 when I did my PPL I'd never met or talked to my DE before I flew down
to take the check ride. In '95 when I got my helicopter rating the DE was
himself being examined by an FAA examiner. I had been talking to the FAA guy
before I started and he knew I already had my PPL and that this was just an
add-on.

When the DE started asking questions about navigation the FAA guy stopped
him and said don't ask those. It shortend the check out considerably.- Hide quoted text -

Everyone know that helicopters are too slow to go anywhere that would
require navigation (I assume the PTS table didn't require navigation
be covered when adding roto to your ASEL ticket)

-robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:

Everyone know that helicopters are too slow to go anywhere that would
require navigation (I assume the PTS table didn't require navigation
be covered when adding roto to your ASEL ticket)


You're right, it didn't. The DE didn't know that.

A rare example of the FAA being of true service.

Traditionally the students were told what calculations to do ahead of
time and would arrive with a flight plan, W&B, performance, balanced
field, etc asked for by the DE the night before the ride. However, the
FSDO is now asking the examiners to throw those out and make the
student do another one right there to ensure the CFI isn't doing it
for them. Usually the DE will ask the student to plan some sort of
cross country (complete with runway requirements, performance, etc),
then go get coffee and 1/2 watch the process but then go over the
results. A great DE sets aside the entire day for the checkride to
avoid rushing the student, although 1/2 a day is probably the most
common.

-Robert, CFII

I had only ever heard of the 1/2 day scheduling--so now I'm curious:
Does a geate DE actually use the entire day, or just have it available?

Peter- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As a CFI I appreciate it when a DE only does one checkride per day
because it puts less time pressure on the student. Sometimes things
don't work out right and extra time is needed. If the checkride is at
9am and the DE has another at noon, the DE will be more pressured.
About 1/2 the DEs will only schedule one per day because of this.
However, at $400 a pop, I can see why someone would want to do more
than 1 per day. Around here the DEs are scheduled pretty far out. Many
schedule 40 days out (which is REALLY hard as a CFI to ensure the
student "peaks" at the right time, accounting for illness,
maintenance, etc). Other DEs will only work out of certain airports
(simply because they dont' want to drive far from their house). We
have a great bunch of DEs out here (don't get me wrong) but the more
flexibility they give the student, the easier it is for me to make the
stars align at the right time.

-Robert

Thanks, that's a lot of good information that I never knew.

Peter

"JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote in message
news:7081f5c06ccd4@uwe...
Robert M. Gary wrote:


Traditionally the students were told what calculations to do ahead of
time and would arrive with a flight plan, W&B, performance, balanced
field, etc asked for by the DE the night before the ride.

Really? I don't remember that tradition. I took my ride in '88 and at
that time, the DE would (maybe) tell you where the pseudo cross country
was
going to go. On the day of the examination, you were required to do the
flight plan right there in front of the DE. As I recall, the PTS had a
requrement that the flight plan must be completed in 30 min. Later on (in
the rule overhaul of '96, IIRC), they dropped the 30 min. time limit.


Hey, I just bought a Garmin 96 and I can plan a flight now in about 30
seconds. I bet DE don't like this technique on an exam though :-)

Danny Deger