ATC question

A question for Stephen, Newps or other folks knowledgeable in the finer
points of ATC. A friend of mine flew into Reading, PA last week with
another pilot. Since Reading is a class D airport with no TRSA, but
with radar approach control, they elected to simply call tower directly
6 or so miles out. My friend said that the controller was quite nasty
and told them they had to contact approach first if they wanted to land.
By then they were even closer in, but they called approach who
"informed" them gruffly that they were now 4 miles from the airport and
needed to contact tower "immediately." They then called tower and landed.

My friend is a new private pilot (last December) and both he and the
person flying (a pretty experienced pilot, I believe) were rather taken
aback by this. What authority does a class D tower have to refuse entry
to an airplane that hasn't called approach control? Even a TRSA is
voluntary, so I can't imagine that a non-TRSA, non-class B, non-class C
airport can mandate use of approach control.

Is there some new regulation that I've missed?

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

A question for Stephen, Newps or other folks knowledgeable in the finer
points of ATC. A friend of mine flew into Reading, PA last week with
another pilot. Since Reading is a class D airport with no TRSA, but with
radar approach control, they elected to simply call tower directly 6 or so
miles out. My friend said that the controller was quite nasty and told
them they had to contact approach first if they wanted to land. By then
they were even closer in, but they called approach who "informed" them
gruffly that they were now 4 miles from the airport and needed to contact
tower "immediately." They then called tower and landed.

My friend is a new private pilot (last December) and both he and the
person flying (a pretty experienced pilot, I believe) were rather taken
aback by this. What authority does a class D tower have to refuse entry
to an airplane that hasn't called approach control? Even a TRSA is
voluntary, so I can't imagine that a non-TRSA, non-class B, non-class C
airport can mandate use of approach control.

Is there some new regulation that I've missed?

Matt

Although I have never been to Reading, I have read enough posts in
newsgroups to realize that it is a special case...poor relations between
pilots and ATC. I would write up the experience on an ASRS report.

Bob Gardner

On Apr 16, 3:53 pm, "Bob Gardner" wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message

...





A question for Stephen, Newps or other folks knowledgeable in the finer
points of ATC. A friend of mine flew into Reading, PA last week with
another pilot. Since Reading is a class D airport with no TRSA, but with
radar approach control, they elected to simply call tower directly 6 or so
miles out. My friend said that the controller was quite nasty and told
them they had to contact approach first if they wanted to land. By then
they were even closer in, but they called approach who "informed" them
gruffly that they were now 4 miles from the airport and needed to contact
tower "immediately." They then called tower and landed.

My friend is a new private pilot (last December) and both he and the
person flying (a pretty experienced pilot, I believe) were rather taken
aback by this. What authority does a class D tower have to refuse entry
to an airplane that hasn't called approach control? Even a TRSA is
voluntary, so I can't imagine that a non-TRSA, non-class B, non-class C
airport can mandate use of approach control.

Is there some new regulation that I've missed?

Matt

Although I have never been to Reading, I have read enough posts in
newsgroups to realize that it is a special case...poor relations between
pilots and ATC. I would write up the experience on an ASRS report.

Bob Gardner

Do that, but it would be more effective to complain to ATC quality
control. The controllers at Reading are indeed nasty, and there's no
reason that the tower shouldn't have been able to handle you.

Matt Whiting wrote:


A question for Stephen, Newps or other folks knowledgeable in the finer
points of ATC. A friend of mine flew into Reading, PA last week with
another pilot. Since Reading is a class D airport with no TRSA, but
with radar approach control, they elected to simply call tower directly
6 or so miles out. My friend said that the controller was quite nasty
and told them they had to contact approach first if they wanted to land.

Not necessary by FAR, a lot of times necessary by practicality.



By then they were even closer in, but they called approach who
"informed" them gruffly that they were now 4 miles from the airport and
needed to contact tower "immediately." They then called tower and landed.

Yep, pretty dumb.



My friend is a new private pilot (last December) and both he and the
person flying (a pretty experienced pilot, I believe) were rather taken
aback by this. What authority does a class D tower have to refuse entry
to an airplane that hasn't called approach control?

None.




Even a TRSA is
voluntary, so I can't imagine that a non-TRSA, non-class B, non-class C
airport can mandate use of approach control.

Is there some new regulation that I've missed?


No.

ZikZak wrote:



Do that, but it would be more effective to complain to ATC quality
control.



No such thing. You can call the tower directly and complain but doesn't
sound like it will get you anywhere.

Newps writes:

No such thing. You can call the tower directly and complain but doesn't
sound like it will get you anywhere.

Can a pilot record his conversations with ATC?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Matt Whiting wrote in news:1iSUh.3967$Oc.197261
@news1.epix.net:

A question for Stephen, Newps or other folks knowledgeable in the finer
points of ATC. A friend of mine flew into Reading, PA last week with
another pilot. Since Reading is a class D airport with no TRSA, but
with radar approach control, they elected to simply call tower directly
6 or so miles out. My friend said that the controller was quite nasty
and told them they had to contact approach first if they wanted to land.
By then they were even closer in, but they called approach who
"informed" them gruffly that they were now 4 miles from the airport and
needed to contact tower "immediately." They then called tower and

They do the same thing at my home airport, HPN. They are a class D, but
they have quite a bit of airline and bizjet traffic, and are right at the
edge of the NYC Class B, so they try to act like a class C. Most people who
have flown into the area or are based here are pretty well used to calling
approach to get squawked and sequenced in, so it's a non issue. But every
once in a while you hear someone being told to "Remain clear the Delta and
contact approach on 126.4 for sequencing."

If that was the language used ("remain clear"), and/or he didn't call the
tail number in the first place, then your friend busted 91.129. Not because
he didn't talk to approach first, but because he was told by tower to
remain clear of the airspace until he did. If the tower controller called
his numbers, and didn't specifically tell him to remain clear, it's more
questionable as to whether he busted any regs, even if he did annoy the
tower controllers, which is generally not something you really want to do
at a busy airport anyway... ("Piper extend your downwind you are #9 behind
4 falcons on final, and 5 departures in between...")

In article ,
Newps wrote:

ZikZak wrote:



Do that, but it would be more effective to complain to ATC quality
control.



No such thing. You can call the tower directly and complain but doesn't
sound like it will get you anywhere.

Contact your local FSDO.
They can provide you with a telephone number, address to contact and
describe the situation. If Reading is a contract tower, the FAA has a
quality control program in operation for just these type of incidents.
If they receive complaints, and the complaints are not addressed by the
contractor, that contractor may lose the bid the next time around.

Judah wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote in news:1iSUh.3967$Oc.197261
@news1.epix.net:

A question for Stephen, Newps or other folks knowledgeable in the finer
points of ATC. A friend of mine flew into Reading, PA last week with
another pilot. Since Reading is a class D airport with no TRSA, but
with radar approach control, they elected to simply call tower directly
6 or so miles out. My friend said that the controller was quite nasty
and told them they had to contact approach first if they wanted to land.
By then they were even closer in, but they called approach who
"informed" them gruffly that they were now 4 miles from the airport and
needed to contact tower "immediately." They then called tower and

They do the same thing at my home airport, HPN. They are a class D, but
they have quite a bit of airline and bizjet traffic, and are right at the
edge of the NYC Class B, so they try to act like a class C. Most people who
have flown into the area or are based here are pretty well used to calling
approach to get squawked and sequenced in, so it's a non issue. But every
once in a while you hear someone being told to "Remain clear the Delta and
contact approach on 126.4 for sequencing."

If that was the language used ("remain clear"), and/or he didn't call the
tail number in the first place, then your friend busted 91.129. Not because
he didn't talk to approach first, but because he was told by tower to
remain clear of the airspace until he did. If the tower controller called
his numbers, and didn't specifically tell him to remain clear, it's more
questionable as to whether he busted any regs, even if he did annoy the
tower controllers, which is generally not something you really want to do
at a busy airport anyway... ("Piper extend your downwind you are #9 behind
4 falcons on final, and 5 departures in between...")

He said the tower controller replied with their N number so I don't
think there is any concern about busting a regulation. Just wondering
what the deal was as we fly out of ELM with is a TRSA and tower never
gives us any crap if we bypass approach. I usually call approach just
to keep them awake, but if I'm just hopping from 7N1 to ELM, I'll
sometimes just call tower as I may barely get high enough for radar
identification before I'm near the class D.

Matt

In article ,
Judah wrote:


They do the same thing at my home airport, HPN. They are a class D, but
they have quite a bit of airline and bizjet traffic, and are right at the
edge of the NYC Class B, so they try to act like a class C. Most people who
have flown into the area or are based here are pretty well used to calling
approach to get squawked and sequenced in, so it's a non issue. But every
once in a while you hear someone being told to "Remain clear the Delta and
contact approach on 126.4 for sequencing."

Westchester has been a virtual Class C for years. The last time
I flew out of HPN was ~1990, and it was a virtual Class C back then.
I don't know why they don't make it an actual Class C. The only
operational difference would be that transient pilots would know
they need to contact approach first.

Westchester has more traffic (according to the traffic figures on
AirNav) then Sacramento International (SMF), and Sac Intl has a
Class C. Westchester has slightly less traffic then San Jose.
San Jose is about the same distance from the primary Class B (SFO)
as Westchester is from LGA, and has the same Class C overlapped
with Class B that a Class C Westchester would have.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/