C-130 on Navy Carrier

Just a few minor corrections
Both pilots, Flatley and Stoval got DFCs for this program.

The C-130 was the largest and heaviest airplane to be "publically"
landed on a carrier. The Navy didn't go public with everything it did.

The program was to counter USAF and Whiz Kid complaints that a nuclear
carrier could not be resupplied by air if necessary. This program
proved they could be and if you check history you'll find all carriers
henceforth were nuclear powered. Kennedy and America were the final
oil burners desired by both the USAF and Macnammara's whiz kids because
of cost.

The C-2a while not as large became the carrier's supply airplane.

The short landing roll was due to close coordination between the LSO
and Stoval who operated the throttles. At the LSO's signal "cut" all
props went into reverse pitch while the Herc was still in the air.
Flatley steered and locked the Hytrol brakes.The landing was not a
gentle USAF type.

The C-1A referred to had a max range of about 800 miles, not 300. It
was payload limited. The C-2A could carry two J-79 engines which was
it's design spec. Max range about 1000 miles.

The primary purpose of this effort was to prove the Navy could do what
the USAF and Macnammaras educated idiots (IMHO) said could not be done.
The fact that there were few pilots with Flatley and Stovals expertise
around was lost on the doubters and the Nuclear carrier became the Navy
Standard.They deserved more than a DFC, INMHO, but they did the Navy
proud that day.

PS, I know Macnammara is misspelled but I really don't care.


Lorence wrote:
On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 15:47:49 -0800, "W. D. Allen Sr."
wrote:

Does anyone know anything about the C-130 that made arrested
landings and
launches from a Navy aircraft carrier back in the 1960s?


Taken from http://www.cgaux.com/C-130carrierlanding.htm
__________________________________________________ ____________

Not only was it possible, it was done in moderately rough seas 500
miles out in the North Atlantic off the coast of Boston. In so doing,
the airplane became the largest and heaviest aircraft to ever land on
an aircraft carrier, a record that stands to this day.

When Lt. James H. Flatley III was told about his new assignment, he
thought somebody was pulling his leg. "Operate a C-130 off an
aircraft
carrier? Somebody's got to be kidding," he said. But they weren't
kidding. In fact, the Chief of Naval Operations himself had ordered a
feasibility study on operating the big propjet aboard the
Norfolk-based U.S.S. Forrestal (CVA-59). The Navy was trying to find
out whether they could use the Hercules as a "Super COD" - a "Carrier
Onboard Delivery" aircraft. The airplane then used for such tasks was
the Grumman C-1 Trader, a twin piston-engine bird with a limited
payload capacity and 300-mile range. If an aircraft carrier is
operating in mid-ocean, it has no "onboard delivery" system to fall
back on and must come nearer land before taking aboard even urgently
needed items. The Hercules was stable and reliable, with a long
cruising range and capable of carrying large payloads.


C-130 Hercules

The aircraft, a KC-130F refueler transport (BuNo 149798), on loan
from
the U.S. Marines, was delivered on 8 October. Lockheed's only
modifications to the original plane included installing a smaller
nose-landing gear orifice, an improved anti-skid braking system, and
removal of the underwing refueling pods. "The big worry was whether
we
could meet the maximum sink rate of nine feet per second," Flatley
said. As it turned out, the Navy was amazed to find they were able to
better this mark by a substantial margin.

In addition to Flatley, the crew consisted of Lt.Cmdr. W.W. Stovall,
copilot; ADR-1 E.F. Brennan, flight engineer; and Lockheed
engineering
flight test pilot Ted H. Limmer, Jr. The initial sea-born landings on
30 October 1963 were made into a 40-knot wind. Altogether, the crew
successfully negotiated 29 touch-and-go landings, 21 unarrested
full-stop landings, and 21 unassisted takeoffs at gross weights of
85,000 pounds up to 121,000 pounds. At 85,000 pounds, the KC-130F
came
to a complete stop within 267 feet, about twice the aircraft's wing
span! The Navy was delighted to discover that even with a maximum
payload, the plane used only 745 feet for takeoff and 460 feet for
landing roll. The short landing roll resulted from close coordination
between Flatley and Jerry Daugherty, the carrier's landing signal
officer. Daugherty, later to become a captain and assigned to the
Naval Air Systems Command, gave Flatley an engine "chop" while still
three or four feet off the deck.

C-130 Hercules

Lockheed's Ted Limmer, who checked out fighter pilot Flatley in the
C-130, stayed on for some of the initial touch-and-go and full-stop
landings. "The last landing I participated in, we touched down about
150 feet from the end, stopped in 270 feet more and launched from
that
position, using what was left of the deck. We still had a couple
hundred feet left when we lifted off. Admiral Brown was
flabbergasted."

The plane's wingspan cleared the Forrestal's flight deck "island"
control tower by just under 15 feet as the plane roared down the deck
on a specially painted line. Lockheed's chief engineer, Art E. Flock
was aboard to observe the testing. "The sea was pretty big that day.
I
was up on the captain's bridge. I watched a man on the ship's bow as
that bow must have gone up and down 30 feet." The speed of the shop
was increased 10 knots to reduce yaw motion and to reduce wind
direction. Thus, when the plane landed, it had a 40 to 50 knot wind
on
the nose. "That airplane stopped right opposite the captain's
bridge,"
recalled Flock. "There was cheering and laughing. There on the side
of
the fuselage, a big sign had been painted on that said, "LOOK MA, NO
HOOK."

From the accumulated test data, the Navy concluded that with the
C-130
Hercules, it would be possible to lift 25,000 pounds of cargo 2,500
miles and land it on a carrier. Even so, the idea was considered a
bit
too risky for the C-130 and the Navy elected to use a smaller COD
aircraft. For his effort, the Navy awarded Flatley the Distinguished
Flying Cross.


Lorence

On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 15:47:49 -0800, "W. D. Allen Sr."
wrote:

Does anyone know anything about the C-130 that made arrested landings and
launches from a Navy aircraft carrier back in the 1960s?

No, because no such event happened. The landings were NOT arrested
(nor did they use catapults).

This is probably the most common question here. 10 seconds of web
searching on "C-130 carrier landing" turned up several dozen relevant
pages.


--
Andrew Toppan --- --- "I speak only for myself"
"Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today,
Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - http://www.hazegray.org/

W. D. Allen Sr. wrote:

Does anyone know anything about the C-130 that made arrested landings and
launches from a Navy aircraft carrier back in the 1960s?

WDA

end



You can watch short video clips of the landing and launch of a C-130 on
the USS Forestall at the Air & Space Smithsonian magazines web site.

http://www.airandspacemagazine.com/a...e/QT/menu.html

ALV

Hi WDA:

You can get the pertinent facts from our C-130 Page @
http://www.scenery.org/c-130.htm - there's also an opportunity to
purchase the book that chronicles the event, as well as other
fascinating legends of the Herk.

Good Luck

Tom G, Sr.


On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 15:47:49 -0800, "W. D. Allen Sr."
wrote:

Does anyone know anything about the C-130 that made arrested landings and
launches from a Navy aircraft carrier back in the 1960s?

WDA

end




_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Name: T. & D. Gregor, Sr.
E-Mail:
Web-Site: http://www.scenery.org
"The Scenery Hall of Fame"
Subscribe to our Newsletter:


_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

ballensr- Does anyone know anything about the C-130 that made arrested
landings and
launches from a Navy aircraft carrier back in the 1960s? BRBR

I'm sure a bunch will repsond but they weren't 'arrested' landings but just max
reverse pitch when landing, with lots of WOD. Done by Admiral, then LCDR(?)
Flatley. I was in VF-33 when he was CAG..
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

From: (Pechs1)

I'm sure a bunch will repsond but they weren't 'arrested' landings but just
maxreverse pitch when landing, with lots of WOD. Done by Admiral, then
LCDR(?)Flatley. I was in VF-33 when he was CAG..P. C. ChisholmCDR,
USN(ret.)Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat
Buckeye Phlyer

Its actually quite a well known feat caught on video and available to almost
anyone and seen on Discovery and PBS within the past year.

A much more interesting video is a Herc landing and taking off on a football
field with the goal posts up.

To me the scariest Herc film is a Herc picking up a downed flier at sea via the
use of a balloon put up by the downed flier. I truly think I would rather take
my chances in the water than get jerked into the air at the end of a long
cable.

Getting jerked out of the air by a medium length cable is scary enough.

isme (NimBill) wrote:
snip

To me the scariest Herc film is a Herc picking up a downed flier at sea via the
use of a balloon put up by the downed flier. I truly think I would rather take
my chances in the water than get jerked into the air at the end of a long
cable.


I don't think -I- would...the North Atlantic in winter isn't my
idea of a fun place.

Getting jerked out of the air by a medium length cable is scary enough.


I understand that that's not very stressful at all...I saw it
demo'd once, didn't look very vigorous, I believe they use nylon
rope which is quite 'stretchy' and delivers a smooth acceleration
to the 'victim'
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
...
| isme (NimBill) wrote:
| snip
|
| To me the scariest Herc film is a Herc picking up a downed flier at sea
via the
| use of a balloon put up by the downed flier. I truly think I would rather
take
| my chances in the water than get jerked into the air at the end of a long
| cable.
|
|
| I don't think -I- would...the North Atlantic in winter isn't my
| idea of a fun place.
|
| Getting jerked out of the air by a medium length cable is scary enough.
|
|
| I understand that that's not very stressful at all...I saw it
| demo'd once, didn't look very vigorous, I believe they use nylon
| rope which is quite 'stretchy' and delivers a smooth acceleration
| to the 'victim'
| --
|
| -Gord.
| (use gordon in email)




'sfunny, I was at a supplier's office today talking about the very same
thing. We decided that it would be the ideal treatment for someone
who's just compressed a few vertibra during an ejection. At
least you'd be the same height as you were when you took off (your knuckles
wouldn't ever be the same colour again)





--

Cheers


Dave Kearton

Gord Beaman wrote:
isme (NimBill) wrote:

snip

Getting jerked out of the air by a medium length cable is scary
enough.


I understand that that's not very stressful at all...I saw it
demo'd once, didn't look very vigorous, I believe they use nylon
rope which is quite 'stretchy' and delivers a smooth acceleration
to the 'victim'

Smooth, unless the rope snapped, as it did in some of the early trials
(killed at least one SEAL that way, IIRC). The Air Force finally decided
Skyhook wasn't all that useful and removed the pickup gear from its spec
ops Hercs a few years back. I think the sense is that with helicopter IFR,
you can simply tank a helo to pretty much anywhere and do the pickup in a
more conventional fashion.

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when
wrong to be put right." - Senator Carl Schurz, 1872

"W. D. Allen Sr." wrote:
Does anyone know anything about the C-130 that made arrested landings and
launches from a Navy aircraft carrier back in the 1960s?
WDA
end

What would happen if the C130 just flew in low to the deck and the
cargo was ejected out the back? Could most airdropped stuff take a 10
foot freefall? How about 20 feet? How about the carrier deck?
Probably no dents right? I can imagine it "depends" on what is being
delivered.

How about a scenario like this?

C130 has a very heavy cargo load and minimal fuel. As soon as it
takes off, it does an aerial refueling and flies to the carrier. I
don't know the numbers but I imagine takeoff weight is lower than max
airborne?

Jay