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#81
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Mike
MU-2 Do you know Sandy McAusland? VL |
#82
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"Back_To_Flying" wrote: He is in more danger of dying in a car crash on the way to the airport. Driving is still the most dangerous activity we humans do. Utter BS. Ok, unlike you I have done some research on this then . Evidently you haven't, or you'd know that the fatal accident rate of private flying is 700% higher than that of driving in the U. S. Driving is the leading cause of death for American drivers between 15 - 20 years of age. Here is my source http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/041018-3.htm Yes. So? Are you saying kids fly as much as they drive? I have also seen a few more reports concluding the same. So one could conclude that driving is still much more dangerous than flying regardless of age group. Do you have proof of the opposite? Then show me your source. You said: "He is in more danger of dying in a car crash on the way to the airport.", indicating that you believe there is greater risk in one driving trip than in one flying trip. Then you presented statistics about death rates from a population that contains almost no pilots. In other words, you've ignored the relative exposure of pilots vs. drivers. That old chestnut you quoted about the drive to the airport may be true for traveling by scheduled airlines, but it is not even close to true about private flying. As for my source, I get the Nall Report from the ASF every year: http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/02nall.pdf -- you can get the GA fatal accidents/hour from it and compare that to the rate for driving. Just for fun, ask yourself these three questions: How many celebrities do you know of that have died in GA accidents? How many in car crashes? How much time do celebrities spend traveling in GA aircraft vs traveling in cars? As Richard Collins noted in a recent article in Flying Magazine, anyone who has been heavily involved in aviation for decades will know more people that have died in plane crashes than have died in car crashes, even though most people they know don't fly. -- Dan C-172RG at BFM |
#83
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wrote: You are right to be concerned for the safety of your children with respect to your husband's flying, particularly in weather requiring the instrument rating. She is right to be concerned. But she said it was a hobby, and we don't know what her husband's intentions are regarding the instrument rating. Not everyone who pursues that rating gets it with the intention of taking off routinely in weather "requiring an instrument rating" (except for the purpose of staying current) ... many get it for the added training, knowledge and precision as well as for the "just in case" situation that *might* occur despite all the best laid plans, but not one you'd actively seek out. IMO that's a dangerous attitude to have. An instrument rated pilot who does not regularly use the rating cannot be proficient unless he is exceptionally committed to regular training. I don't know any pilots who fit that description. The ones I know who keep the rating "just to get through a cloud deck" would be in real danger if unexpectedly forced to fly an approach to minimums. Someone else asked what she expected to hear -- I think she either expected someone to tell her that she was right and that her husband should give up flying until their two daughters are adults and no longer dependants, or maybe she just wanted and needed to hear how others weigh, justify, rationalize or prioritize the risk in our decision whether or not to fly, and some assurance that her husband was going in a sensible direction, not deeper into danger. I think she is justifiably worried. Look at it from her side: she knows zip-all about flying aside from what she sees on TV, which is nearly 100% bad. How would you feel? I think it shows some good sense that she is at least willing to research the subject. We don't know her husband; she does. She doesn't know flying; we do (well, some of us do). So she has to weigh what she reads here against what she thinks about her husband's judgement. -- Dan C-172RG at BFM |
#84
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"Andrew Sarangan" wrote: It is important to remember than airline pilots flying an airliner is different from an airline pilot flying a small GA aircraft. Yes. For one thing, he most likely has better recurrent training. For another, he has more rigorous procedures he must follow, which are monitored by voice and data recorders. And last, but not least, he has help from another pilot. -- Dan C-172RG at BFM |
#85
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...Take a 182, fly day VFR only, don't buzz anybody and your
chance of dying is the same as driving... Gosh, do we *really* need to quantify that statement? Let's see.... Hmmm.. If we remove needless risk taking, do you think flying might be safer? I believe the answer can only be "yes." Heck, if we remove "running out of gas" and "flying planes that haven't been maintained properly", personal flying might actually be SAFER than driving. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#86
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I've read the Nall report.
You're missing my point. My point is, the way *I* fly, in *my* plane, is safer than *my* drive to *my* airport, which is my main concern and the only thing I can directly influence. Isn't it possible I could be right? Do you agree that some kinds of GA flying are safer than some kinds of automobile driving? "Dave Stadt" wrote in message om... "Dan Thompson" wrote in message . com... I think you also have to focus on the safety risks of different kinds of "driving." A Sunday morning drive on a deserted country lane is quite safe. Anywhere close to a high school at 4 pm on a school day is like Russian roulette. Big city freeways, when not at a standstill, are congested, high speed, tailgating, free-for-alls. I am sure my flying in my plane is safer than my driving on my city freeways. I have to drive about 20 miles on those freeways to get to my airport, and always breathe a sigh of relief that the dangerous part is over when I pull onto the airport ramp. Statistics are relevant to me only if the sample is of people very close to people like me taking risks like mine. It is quite possible that for many of us, our driving is more dangerous than our flying. You will not find any supporting evidence for your assumptions. Any way you want to look at it GA flying is more likely to result in your death than driving many times over. What you would find is that two lane country roads are among the most dangerous. Two way undivided traffic allows for very little error and even single car accidents are spectacular. Divided multilane traffic is among the safest. The Nall report is available on the AOPA WEB site. It makes for interesting reading. |
#87
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"Dan Luke" wrote:
Just for fun, ask yourself these three questions: How many celebrities do you know of that have died in GA accidents? This isn't really an accurate way to judge *anything* (see below), but just to play along, let's at least add the limitation "in the last 45 years": As Pilot in Command (I'm sure there are more, but these are the only two that come to mind): 1. John Denver 2. John Jr. As a passenger (where they're hopping on board something that will either get them home or on to the next destination to meet a schedule .... how many pleasure pilots like the one the *original poster* wrote about begin their flights with those time constraints?): 1. Rick Nelson 3. Stevie Ray Vaughan 4. Aliyah 5. Randy Rhoads (guitarist for Ozzy Osborne) 6. Buddy Holly How many in car crashes? 1. Princess Grace 2. Princess Diana 3. Cliff Burton (Metallica) 4. Michael Hedges (guitarist) 5. Jayne Mansfield How much time do celebrities spend traveling in GA aircraft vs traveling in cars? Probably a lot more in aircraft (GA or otherwise). Designate any other *select group* of people who travel in conjunction with work or for pleasure -- let's say, the top-5 executives of all major corporations -- over the past 45 years, and I'm sure, if there were a way to track it, you'd have a similar number that have had plane/car crashes, we just haven't made mental note of those because they simply aren't as noteworthy to us. As Richard Collins noted in a recent article in Flying Magazine, anyone who has been heavily involved in aviation for decades will know more people that have died in plane crashes than have died in car crashes, even though most people they know don't fly. Yes, but again, that's not a fair representation of anything. While pilots represent a small percentage of the total population, the flying community of "anyone who has been heavily involved in aviation for decades" stretches far and wide -- most people who fly either know or know-of other pilots at their airport and at other airports at close AND distant locations. It's not unusual, if you've been "heavily involved for decades", to know, or know OF the pilot when an accident occurs. How many people at your airport or at other airports have you met and BS'ed with, even if just about how they burned your toast at the Hangar Café? If something happens to them, you will remember them or their airplane. But if you BS with someone at the grocery store or at a friend's party, unless there was something particularly noteworthy about them, odds are you wouldn't remember them 5 or 10 years later if they die in a car crash. That flying community that is built over "decades" encompasses a far larger number of people than the total of your family and circle of friends and co-workers, even though we often don't know more about them than their name and the aircraft they fly. If we had that same kind of link/connection to everyone and way to remember them that we do to other pilots, I'm sure the number of car crash fatality victims we know or know-of would be *at least* as great or greater. IMO, that Richard Collins comment is simply NOT an indication of anything other than what we've already established ... we know or know-of many other pilots and airplanes in a more personal, identifiable way than we can possibly know or know-of all other random cars and drivers. And again, bottom line, what difference does it make which mode of transportation statistics say is more or less safe?...I don't think most people look at the stats every morning as a way to gauge whether or not to fly that day. |
#88
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What about you guys? I suspect if your log book has more than a few
hundard hours you've been in circumstances where your particular die's black face nearly came up. Was the start of the sequence 'pilot error' or equipment? The types of experiences you have described are so far beyond the realm of anything I've experienced, that I feel the need to reassure the original poster that this is NOT typical of most pilots who fly light planes. If it were, this poor lady should drag her husband out of the cockpit, kicking and screaming, right NOW. I've been flying for ten years. I've got over 900 hours as PIC, and another 400 hours of right seat time (my wife is a pilot, too.). In that time I have NEVER experienced an in-flight emergency or come close to death. We have flown from coast to coast, in all seasons, first in poorly maintained rental planes, and -- since '98 -- in our own well-maintained aircraft. In the rental planes I experienced a couple of failures: 1. Electrical system. The lights went out in two rental planes, resulting in little more than inconvenience. 2. Water in the fuel. I once sumped over a QUART of water from a rental plane. That's why we do pre-flight inspections. 3. Broken throttle cable. This happened on the ground, luckily, during run-up. In planes I have owned, we have experienced no mechanical failures of any kind, mostly because I insist on maintaining our aircraft to perfection. We watch the weather closely, and carefully pick our times to fly. We ALWAYS refuel after every flight, so that we always have full tanks. Since we can fly non-stop for over 5 hours, this pretty much eliminates the "running out of gas" scenario. We don't "buzz" anyone, we don't overload the aircraft, and we don't fly when the weather sucks. Our one concession to safety (we also have two kids, both of whom have flown since they were tots) is that we no longer fly at night. We also ride motorcycles, BTW, although less and less as time goes by. Life is a terminal condition, and there ain't no one getting off this planet alive. There are so many people in this world who are simply waiting to die -- I hope the original poster lets her husband live his dream. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#89
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#90
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"Dan Thompson" wrote: I've read the Nall report. You're missing my point. My point is, the way *I* fly, in *my* plane, is safer than *my* drive to *my* airport, which is my main concern and the only thing I can directly influence. Isn't it possible I could be right? It's possible, if each activity were conducted at the opposite extremes of behavior and circumstances with respect to risk, but how realistic is that? Do you agree that some kinds of GA flying are safer than some kinds of automobile driving? I have seen no evidence for it, but I would bet that a proficient pilot making a 50-mile trip in a 172 on a nice day is at less risk than a drunk redneck speeding down a two-lane mountain road at night in the rain. So what? Look at it this way: you fit somewhere on the bell curve of drivers WRT judgement and ability, probably on the good slope, in your opinion. Don't you think you occupy about the same spot on the private pilot bell curve? But the risk/hour for all private pilots is *much* greater than the risk/hour for all drivers, so, even though compared to others you're as good a pilot as you are a driver -- better than most --, your risk while flying is still greater than your risk while driving. -- Dan C-172RG at BFM |
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