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#11
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On Tue, 04 May 2021 13:23:24 -0700, John Foster wrote:
On Tuesday, May 4, 2021 at 10:38:39 AM UTC-6, Nick Hill wrote: On 04/05/2021 16:34, wrote: On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 10:37:04 PM UTC-7, wrote: For two place composite gliders, it seems there's basically two camps: dedicated trainers (17-18m) with low-ish performance and high-performance, cross-country machines with long wingspans unsuitable for basic training (20+m). But, both types of performance are needed on the training continuum at different times and few cross that divide with one platform. The only other 'adaptable' two seater where a shorter span could be used for daily training, but added wingspan added for higher-performance cross country, is the DG1001. But, I am guessing the DG1001 is much more expensive than the SZD-54-2. I don't know US/Canada pricing but in the UK my club has looked at this, although not moved forward with either due to recent lack of operations and uncertainty in the recent past. Yes the DG1001 is more expensive but for something you may own and operate for many years the price of a DG1001 Club NEO against a Perkoz may be less than you think. Check with the agents. -- Nick Hill To me this is a market that is SORELY lacking in the US at least. The training fleet is getting quite "long in the tooth". Every year we seem to loose a few 2-33s due to wind damage or some other incident. The G-103s are increasingly getting "beat up" as described above, and those that have been repaired continually seem to loose useful load, even as the US population gets heavier and heavier. For a decent trainer now, unless you are training pediatrics, you need a useful load of almost 400lbs. Anyone over 200lbs is going to have a hard time finding a place to train anymore. There are many clubs in the US that are really strapped for cash, and don't have any options to transition students from the 2-33 into glass ships, let alone do primary training in a glass ship. I really wish there were more options available in this area at an affordable price (under $25,000). But I guess it is a simple case of supply/demand where busy, successful clubs are able to pay the higher prices for more expensive gliders. Is there any market in the US for used ASK-21s? I ask because one of my club's K-21s is over 20 years old now and still nice to fly and not showing its age except that the instrument panel is now a little lower than it was: its shock mount is sagging a bit. For that matter, ASK-13s are worth consideration with over 700 made, though being fabric covered, they shouldn't be left outdoors. I learnt to fly in a combination of ASK-21, SZD Puchacz and G-103 Twin 2 Acro plus occasional flights in a Slingsby T.21b. We've still got all these except the G.103 has been replaced (due to steady weight gain) by a Perkoz. FWIW, I've flown a 2/33. The only other glider I've flown with similar handling and performance is the T.21, but the latter has considerably better pilot ergonomics. An ASK-13 offers considerably better handling and performance than the 2/33 and is nicer to fly. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
#12
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On 04/05/2021 21:23, John Foster wrote:
On Tuesday, May 4, 2021 at 10:38:39 AM UTC-6, Nick Hill wrote: To me this is a market that is SORELY lacking in the US at least. The training fleet is getting quite "long in the tooth". Every year we seem to loose a few 2-33s due to wind damage or some other incident. The G-103s are increasingly getting "beat up" as described above, and those that have been repaired continually seem to loose useful load, even as the US population gets heavier and heavier. For a decent trainer now, unless you are training pediatrics, you need a useful load of almost 400lbs. Anyone over 200lbs is going to have a hard time finding a place to train anymore. There are many clubs in the US that are really strapped for cash, and don't have any options to transition students from the 2-33 into glass ships, let alone do primary training in a glass ship. I really wish there were more options available in this area at an affordable price (under $25,000). But I guess it is a simple case of supply/demand where busy, successful clubs are able to pay the higher prices for more expensive gliders. In Europe various clubs are now refreshing with K21bs so it looks like the second hand price for K21s is falling. Still not at the $25,000 level though. -- Nick Hill |
#13
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On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 4:04:25 AM UTC-4, Nick Hill wrote:
On 04/05/2021 21:23, John Foster wrote: On Tuesday, May 4, 2021 at 10:38:39 AM UTC-6, Nick Hill wrote: To me this is a market that is SORELY lacking in the US at least. The training fleet is getting quite "long in the tooth". Every year we seem to loose a few 2-33s due to wind damage or some other incident. The G-103s are increasingly getting "beat up" as described above, and those that have been repaired continually seem to loose useful load, even as the US population gets heavier and heavier. For a decent trainer now, unless you are training pediatrics, you need a useful load of almost 400lbs. Anyone over 200lbs is going to have a hard time finding a place to train anymore. There are many clubs in the US that are really strapped for cash, and don't have any options to transition students from the 2-33 into glass ships, let alone do primary training in a glass ship. I really wish there were more options available in this area at an affordable price (under $25,000). But I guess it is a simple case of supply/demand where busy, successful clubs are able to pay the higher prices for more expensive gliders. In Europe various clubs are now refreshing with K21bs so it looks like the second hand price for K21s is falling. Still not at the $25,000 level though. -- Nick Hill Remember that the Blanik 13 can be returned to service now, for about that cost. Great trainer. Shipping to/from Czech Republic not so crazy with 3 in a container as detailed in SOARING a few years back. Details on Blanik USA website. |
#14
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On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 6:29:21 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 4:04:25 AM UTC-4, Nick Hill wrote: On 04/05/2021 21:23, John Foster wrote: On Tuesday, May 4, 2021 at 10:38:39 AM UTC-6, Nick Hill wrote: To me this is a market that is SORELY lacking in the US at least. The training fleet is getting quite "long in the tooth". Every year we seem to loose a few 2-33s due to wind damage or some other incident. The G-103s are increasingly getting "beat up" as described above, and those that have been repaired continually seem to loose useful load, even as the US population gets heavier and heavier. For a decent trainer now, unless you are training pediatrics, you need a useful load of almost 400lbs. Anyone over 200lbs is going to have a hard time finding a place to train anymore. There are many clubs in the US that are really strapped for cash, and don't have any options to transition students from the 2-33 into glass ships, let alone do primary training in a glass ship. I really wish there were more options available in this area at an affordable price (under $25,000). But I guess it is a simple case of supply/demand where busy, successful clubs are able to pay the higher prices for more expensive gliders. In Europe various clubs are now refreshing with K21bs so it looks like the second hand price for K21s is falling. Still not at the $25,000 level though. -- Nick Hill Remember that the Blanik 13 can be returned to service now, for about that cost. Great trainer. Shipping to/from Czech Republic not so crazy with 3 in a container as detailed in SOARING a few years back. Details on Blanik USA website. A friend of mine just sold his Blanik L13 that he sent back to the factory for the modification. It sold for $55k, I think. |
#15
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On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 8:47:11 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Hello, trying to get some information together on this glider for club purchase consideration, but I cannot find a US dealer for it. Am I just missing an obvious one? Does anyone have any first-hand experience with this glider--observations on how suitable it would be to replace a club Grob 103? Thank you, Mark If you provide me with your email I will forward to you quite a bit of useful info. Jacek |
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