Stalls??

WingFlaps wrote in news:3d035899-558f-4866-8a56-
:




True, and that's usually just the first warning tone. I've said it
before but you can't get second tone in a 172 with wheels on the
ground without the tail touching... but we've thrashed this out
before. The problem, as I see it, is that aiming to land in a stalled
condition everything had better be perfect as you have no reserves.
You can't lift a wing if your x-wind control is a bit off or pull
back if a wind shadow hits -never mind the round out being close to
stall with crossed controls in a xwind ...

Not so. There are plenty of airplanes that are normally landed at or close
to the stall. Many taildraggers are arranged so that three point is
achieved at the critical angle of attack or beyond, mainly to reduce
landing roll. as long as you don't try to descend in this attitude it's not
a problem




Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
(Jay Masino) wrote in
:

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?

For me, there's no question that it's related to my lingering fear of
heights... even after 21 years of flying. I'll do stalls with no
problems when I'm doing my BFR... I even did spin training when I was
a student, but I can't get passed the sensation that the aircraft is
hardly moving forward. It makes me accutely aware of how high in the
air I am. Having said that, it's never caused much of a problem.
I'm probably the best lander at our airport. I regularly slip all the
way to the ground. I think I'm a fairly precise flyer. I did well on
my Instrument rating. I did well when I did my taildragger
transition (in a Luscombe). I know how to fly the aircraft with
precision in the pattern and avoid a stall close to the ground. I
don't think there has to be a correlation between comfort doing
stalls, and being a good pilot.

If you're flying a Luscombe and afraid of stalls, please stop flying it.
Far too many have been wrecked already.


Actually, I found the stalls in our Luscombe fairly easy. That's not
the point I was trying to make. The point is that my lingering fear of
heights make it... lets say "uncomfortable" to do stalls, so I try my
best to avoid them.



--

Jay Masino "Home is where My critters are"
http://www.JayMasino.com
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

(Jay Masino) wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
(Jay Masino) wrote in
:

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an
over when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so
afraid of flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that
where the nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should
be comfortable and competent?
What do you think?

For me, there's no question that it's related to my lingering fear
of heights... even after 21 years of flying. I'll do stalls with
no problems when I'm doing my BFR... I even did spin training when
I was a student, but I can't get passed the sensation that the
aircraft is hardly moving forward. It makes me accutely aware of
how high in the air I am. Having said that, it's never caused
much of a problem. I'm probably the best lander at our airport. I
regularly slip all the way to the ground. I think I'm a fairly
precise flyer. I did well on my Instrument rating. I did well when
I did my taildragger transition (in a Luscombe). I know how to fly
the aircraft with precision in the pattern and avoid a stall close
to the ground. I don't think there has to be a correlation between
comfort doing stalls, and being a good pilot.

If you're flying a Luscombe and afraid of stalls, please stop flying
it. Far too many have been wrecked already.


Actually, I found the stalls in our Luscombe fairly easy.

They are. Especially the metal wing ones. Did you spin it? Did you try
and provoke an inadvertant spin?

That's not
the point I was trying to make. The point is that my lingering fear
of heights make it... lets say "uncomfortable" to do stalls, so I
try my best to avoid them.


If you're not comfortable, you're not safe in a Luscombe.



Bertie

Bertie

On Feb 14, 8:49 am, "Neil Gould" wrote:
Recently, posted:

Every flight in a light GA single should end in a full stall...right
as the wheels roll on to the runway...Unless folks know how to
handle the plane in a stall, they will not learn to land correctly
(I know this will start the flames!)-

That's a sweet ending, though -- flames or not -- especially when the
stall horn blows and the wheels just start turning.

Yeah baby!

Curious... in the Cessnas and Pipers that I fly the stall horn blows at
least 5 kts before the stall. So, when the stall horn is blowing and the
wheels touch down, the plane is still flying.

Neil

We had a jump pilot who (in a 206, with jump door) held a pretty
constant beep-beep-beep from rotation to about 500' on every
takeoff...no buffet, no stall. Sometimes we'd talk him (it didn't
take much) into holding it just off the grass down the runway and then
swoop the takeoff. Sigh.

My first time in a GA aircraft was my first jump...surrounded by
crazies who were going on up to jump out higher. Between the noise &
fear of heights when the door popped open its amazing I jumped again
that day.

On Feb 14, 1:52 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
WingFlaps wrote in news:b0142804-b73a-49e9-8670-
:

On Feb 15, 4:11 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

If you're flying a Luscombe and afraid of stalls, please stop flying it.
Far too many have been wrecked already.

I don't understand this, are you saying that they stall all the time -
please explain?

No, but the stall, while not violent, is not as wussy as a 150 or
cherokee's stall. It's one of the easiest to spin light airplanes ever (
it's stall-spin accident rate is ferocious) and it's approach speed is
neccesarily fairly low so as to avoid floating. It's a wonderful airplane.
I've owned three. But it is not an airplane that suffers fools gladly. And
anyone who flies one and shies away form stalling it because it makes him
uncomfortable is a future statistic. You have to know every way that
airplane can enter a spin and what every type of stall looks and feels like
or you are not safe to fly it.

Bertie

MIght I ask a (possibly) stupid question about stall practice?

If you start at a safe altitude (I know, what's safe...) say 7-9K ft H
above G...what's the problem (given a plane that's relatively docile)?

Folks I used to jump with (ram-air wings) were always twitchy about
stalling their canopies in flight (but did so to land, go figger).
First time I tried it I had a good scare (no instructor seat in a
harness) because the ram-air chute collapses when it stalls giving you
a good sudden 2' drop, then wads up into a semicircular mini-round
chute and you start dropping *backwards* and down at 40-50mph.

Point being, you don't try this at 500' feet in a chute but at 1500'
or above, why not? Same with a plane...altitude is life. If you
don't know what either rig feels like 'on the edges' then you are an
incipient statistic whenever the situation gets just a little snarky.

wrote in
:

On Feb 14, 1:52 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
WingFlaps wrote in
news:b0142804-b73a-49e9-8670-
:

On Feb 15, 4:11 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

If you're flying a Luscombe and afraid of stalls, please stop
flying it. Far too many have been wrecked already.

I don't understand this, are you saying that they stall all the
time - please explain?

No, but the stall, while not violent, is not as wussy as a 150 or
cherokee's stall. It's one of the easiest to spin light airplanes
ever ( it's stall-spin accident rate is ferocious) and it's approach
speed is neccesarily fairly low so as to avoid floating. It's a
wonderful airplane. I've owned three. But it is not an airplane that
suffers fools gladly. And anyone who flies one and shies away form
stalling it because it makes him uncomfortable is a future statistic.
You have to know every way that airplane can enter a spin and what
every type of stall looks and feels like or you are not safe to fly
it.

Bertie

MIght I ask a (possibly) stupid question about stall practice?

If you start at a safe altitude (I know, what's safe...) say 7-9K ft H
above G...what's the problem (given a plane that's relatively docile)?

Folks I used to jump with (ram-air wings) were always twitchy about
stalling their canopies in flight (but did so to land, go figger).
First time I tried it I had a good scare (no instructor seat in a
harness) because the ram-air chute collapses when it stalls giving you
a good sudden 2' drop, then wads up into a semicircular mini-round
chute and you start dropping *backwards* and down at 40-50mph.

Point being, you don't try this at 500' feet in a chute but at 1500'
or above, why not? Same with a plane...altitude is life. If you
don't know what either rig feels like 'on the edges' then you are an
incipient statistic whenever the situation gets just a little snarky.


Oh absolutely, at altitude always. You don't practice stalls low down.
Even if you're sharp enough to recover in ten feet every time, you do
them at altitude.


Bertie

John Smith wrote in
:

In article ,
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

WingFlaps wrote in
news:b0142804-b73a-49e9-8670-
:

On Feb 15, 4:11*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:


If you're flying a Luscombe and afraid of stalls, please stop
flying it. Far too many have been wrecked already.


I don't understand this, are you saying that they stall all the
time - please explain?

No, but the stall, while not violent, is not as wussy as a 150 or
cherokee's stall. It's one of the easiest to spin light airplanes
ever ( it's stall-spin accident rate is ferocious) and it's approach
speed is neccesarily fairly low so as to avoid floating. It's a
wonderful airplane. I've owned three. But it is not an airplane that
suffers fools gladly. And anyone who flies one and shies away form
stalling it because it makes him uncomfortable is a future statistic.
You have to know every way that airplane can enter a spin and what
every type of stall looks and feels like or you are not safe to fly
it.

A Luscombe doesn't give the pilot as much warning as many similar
airplanes will. Instead of nibbling at the stall with a buffet, the
Luscombe can break abruptly.


That's right. It's airfoil gives a more laminar flow that somethign like
a Cub. Add to this long wings, gobs of adverse yaw and an extremely
light and powerful rudder and you have one easily spun airplane. It's
also fairly lightly loaded and relatively low powered.


Bertie

On Feb 14, 3:40 pm, John Smith wrote:
In article
,

wrote:
Folks I used to jump with (ram-air wings) were always twitchy about
stalling their canopies in flight (but did so to land, go figger).
First time I tried it I had a good scare (no instructor seat in a
harness) because the ram-air chute collapses when it stalls giving you
a good sudden 2' drop, then wads up into a semicircular mini-round
chute and you start dropping *backwards* and down at 40-50mph.

It's even more fun to go full into the brakes as far as you fingers can
get them until the canopy starts to rock backwards, and then let go of
them!

That's 'zackly what I'm talkin' about! I like it when the drogue
flops over the front.

I learned to let the brakes off a little more slowly. 'Course I was
jumping video then too with a heavy HI-8 rig and full sized SLR with
motordrive.

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?
Its a loaded? question and comes from a 24,000+ hour pilot and active
instructor. I'd really like to see some active discussion on this
subject. I'm tired of seeing aircraft damaged by sloppy flying, and
even more tired of seeing people injured by same.
Got any comments?
Ol S&B
I think it's because people read a lot of posts like this thread before
they learn to fly and think, if they are worried about stalls, I should
be too.

Margy

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:44:27 -0500, John Smith wrote:

"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in message
...
Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?

I never had a fear of stalls, slow flight, or any other maneuvers. My
instructors made sure I was well aquatinted with every phase of
flight before turning me loose.

What do you think?
Its a loaded? question and comes from a 24,000+ hour pilot and active
instructor. I'd really like to see some active discussion on this
subject. I'm tired of seeing aircraft damaged by sloppy flying, and
even more tired of seeing people injured by same.
Got any comments?



I think it has to do with the fear of entering a spin and the fact that
a majority of pilots have never received spin training.
Compound that with students having only to demonstrate an "incipient"
stall, and not a full stall.

I think most of them around here do for real stalls and learn to
recognize the onset of a stall well before solo.

This all leads to fear of the unknown and the folk lore associated with
loss of control.
How many instructors teach their students that it only takes a slight
push on the yoke at the onset of buffet to prevent the stall. Too many

I'd hope they teach it only takes releasing the back pressure and not
necessarily pushing. It shouldn't take long to learn the feel of the
stall and recovery. Each plane is a little different, but not that
much different.

pilots shove the yoke much farther forward (into a descent) than is
necessary.
Even the Deb which has some pretty abrupt stall characteristics only
takes an easing off of the back pressure. (and a lot of rudder when
gear and flaps are down)


First: I'm not advocating the following without an instructor's
blessings. It depends on the instructor and individual student. On my
second solo flight I spent about an hour and a half doing steep
turns, S-turns, turns around a point, slips, and full stalls. (app,
dep and accelerated) IOW I practiced everything I had to do to get
that far.

I think only exposing students to incipient stalls does them a
disservice. With *proper* preparation and exposure stalls and slow
flight should be a non issue.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com