Denver Terminal Area Chart Question - BVR vor/dme

Thanks George...

after 30 years of flying.. TLAR navigation still works.. even with 20 yrs of
that in high speed military aircraft.. you refine it as you get closer...

BT

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Geoffrey Barnes wrote:

But, as I said in the original post, the VORs in this area have not been
adjusted for years now, and the declination used in them is not the same
as
the magnetic variation lines on any current charts.

And as I said in my post, it won't be off enough to matter.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is
curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the
circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but
more
often to the physician than to the patient.

and for this chap.. do you honestly think that 2 or 3 degrees is going to
make a difference?? what ever happened to pilotage

.... sigh...

I'm a student pilot, for crying out loud! I have no idea if 2 or 3 degress
will make a difference. Over a long distance, I suppose it could, but I
really don't have enough experience to know. I'm just trying to learn
something here. That's why I asked the question.

Little did I suspect that I would get jumped on for doing so. Just how on
earth is anyone supposed to learn if they get told off and insulted just for
asking a question? Jeez! The strange thing is that I always have enjoyed
reading the replies you make to other people, and I've even learned a few
things from you in doing so. I really expected better from you, mate. You
disappoint me.

I'm guessing from your reply that it really wouldn't make that much of a
difference. Surely you could have told me that without throwing in a few
destructive comments on my lack of pilotage skills. For the record, my
pilotage skills probably suck. I'm working on them, just like I'm working
on crosswind landingings, steep turns, and everything else. But just like
all my other skills, they probably suck. I already knew that, but thanks
ever so much for confirming it.

:: wanders off, mumbling something about the dismal future of general
aviation, and the uselessness of usenet ::

Geoffrey, cool it old chap...
OK, as a student lets talk about degrees... A pilotage trick is in knowing
that if you change the angle by one degree, lets say to the left, you will
be left of your desired track by 1 nm after you fly 60 nm.. (1 in 60 rule)
If it is 2 degrees then you will be off to the left by 2 nm...
And with shorter distances for a 2 degree change, you will be to the left by
1 nm in half the distance (30 miles) and left of track by a half nm in 15
miles... So if a B airspace is 30 nm across and you start out with a 2
degree error you will be off your desired track by one half mile when you
reach the center... Unless the vfr tunnel is very narow, wind drift will be
a bigger factor than heading error...

This rule comes from hundreds of years of ship navigation... Do a google on
the term "navigation 1 in 60 rule" and you should get hundreds of hits...
See, not that difficult to visualize once you have some numbers to go by...
denny
"Geoffrey Barnes" wrote in ... sigh...

I'm a student pilot, for crying out loud! I have no idea if 2 or 3
degress
will make a difference.

Geoffrey Barnes wrote:

I have no idea if 2 or 3 degress will make a difference.

Did you manage to get out of high school? Do you remember any of the math they
were supposed to teach you? You can use simple math to determine that your deviation
in a 20 mile leg is about 1/4 mile for each degree of variation from the proper
heading.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

Did you manage to get out of high school? Do you remember any of the math
they
were supposed to teach you? You can use simple math to determine that your
deviation
in a 20 mile leg is about 1/4 mile for each degree of variation from the
proper
heading.

Can you manage, just once in your miserable worthless life, to simply help a
person without insulting them?

Geoffrey Barnes wrote:

Can you manage, just once in your miserable worthless life, to simply help a
person without insulting them?

You think it's an insult to ask if you graduated high school? In any case, I gave
you two posts containing nice simple answers to your question, and all you can do
is whine that you're just a lowly student. Grow up and quit bitchin'.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

"Geoffrey Barnes" wrote in message link.net...
I know that I can look up each VORs magnetic variation setting on
airnav.com, but what if that wasn't available?

As others have mentioned, you should always look up the VORs you're
using in the A/FD, which you should have with you as a student.

My first cross-country I planned without using the A/FD. My
instructor gently pointed out that, on the radial I had planned for,
this particular VOR was unusable. Oops!

After that, I went so far as to draw the range arcs around the VORs in
my neighborhood, using the info in the A/FD. I was shocked at how
some rather large arcs were blocked by mountains below certain flight
elevations.

Kev

"Kevin Darling" wrote in message m...
"Geoffrey Barnes" wrote in message link.net...
I know that I can look up each VORs magnetic variation setting on
airnav.com, but what if that wasn't available?

As others have mentioned, you should always look up the VORs you're
using in the A/FD, which you should have with you as a student.

You'll need the A/FD anyhow. Not all VOR's are usable in all directions/altitudes.
If you think just because it's on the chart that you're OK, you're going to be disappointed
sooner or later.

My first solo XC, the VOR at the destination airport for my first leg was out of service
(good thing I checked NOTAM's). This meant a dead reckoning leg for 2/3 of the
second leg (nowhere's land eastern Wyoming and Colorado, not even anything to use
for pilotage until I crossed a dry river perpendicular to my flight path that ran through
my destination). My instructor and I felt confident I could handle it.

hey if you do end up flying north of the Byers VOR make sure you and instructor
watch for the new 2000' antenna

it's pretty new and not on the charts yet

have fun learning!

(Coloboy26X) writes:

hey if you do end up flying north of the Byers VOR make sure you and instructor
watch for the new 2000' antenna

it's pretty new and not on the charts yet

It's missing on the sectionals
https://aviationtoolbox.org/Members/...le cted.y=159
but it's on the TAC.
http://aviationtoolbox.org/raw_data/...20TAC%2061.jpg

--kyler