Most experienced CFI runs out of gas

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
The local news is reporting that a local CFI (with over 30,000 hours
of instruction giving since the early 1960's) ran out of gas just
short of the airport after picking up a P210 and flying back from
Texas to California. Boy, if it can happen to him, it can happen to
anyone.

Um, no. It happens to people who fly with too little fuel.


It will be interesting to see the final facts. Perhaps the
plane was burning way more gas than it should have (the plane had been
bought that day).

-Robert

"PaulH" wrote in message
om...
There can be plenty of reasons for this besides pilot error. A while
back one of my fuel drains developed a slow leak, and there are
probably a dozen other possibilities.

that is pilot error. You should be able to find that leak - 100LL leaves
stains. If it was so slow not to notice, then it should be slow enough not
to matter in a flight. There are few fuel problems that are not pilot
error.

I flew an Archer from BOI to TTD once, and allowing for the headwind, I
planned with 1 hour in reserve. Despite this, I found upon landing that I
only had 20 minutes left. The guages worked well enough that while I knew I
was low, I also knew I wasn't out, but finding out I had only 20 minutes
left was a shocker.

Turned out that this particular bird burned more fuel than it should for an
unknown reason (club plane). I wished I had known that BEFORE the flight.
Anyway, after it went through its next overhaul, it burned the appropriate
amount again.

Now I know why I never plan on landing with less than 1 hour in the tanks...

Dean

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
The local news is reporting that a local CFI (with over 30,000 hours
of instruction giving since the early 1960's) ran out of gas just
short of the airport after picking up a P210 and flying back from
Texas to California. Boy, if it can happen to him, it can happen to
anyone. It will be interesting to see the final facts. Perhaps the
plane was burning way more gas than it should have (the plane had been
bought that day).

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
Boy, if it can happen to him, it can happen to
anyone.

A point that I make constantly to my students and to anyone else who will
listen. Never, not for one second, think that just because you are a good
pilot or an experienced pilot that you will not make mistakes.

(Robert M. Gary) wrote in
om:

The local news is reporting that a local CFI (with over 30,000 hours
of instruction giving since the early 1960's) ran out of gas just
short of the airport after picking up a P210 and flying back from
Texas to California. Boy, if it can happen to him, it can happen to
anyone. It will be interesting to see the final facts. Perhaps the
plane was burning way more gas than it should have (the plane had been
bought that day).

-Robert


Take a look at the AOPA Nall report. The accident rates with flight
experience drops until you reach about 2000 hrs, then it starts climbing.
Pilots with greater than 10,000 hours accounted for 10% of all the
accidents.

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
. 45...
(Robert M. Gary) wrote in
om:

The local news is reporting that a local CFI (with over 30,000 hours
of instruction giving since the early 1960's) ran out of gas just
short of the airport after picking up a P210 and flying back from
Texas to California. Boy, if it can happen to him, it can happen to
anyone. It will be interesting to see the final facts. Perhaps the
plane was burning way more gas than it should have (the plane had been
bought that day).

-Robert


Take a look at the AOPA Nall report. The accident rates with flight
experience drops until you reach about 2000 hrs, then it starts climbing.
Pilots with greater than 10,000 hours accounted for 10% of all the
accidents.




Maybe they get to relaxed and over confident?

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...


Maybe they get to relaxed and over confident?

It is called "complacency," but I think there is more to it than that. If
you play roulette long enough, sooner or later your number is going to come
up.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...


Maybe they get to relaxed and over confident?

It is called "complacency," but I think there is more to it than that. If
you play roulette long enough, sooner or later your number is going to
come
up.


Figure in as well, most 10,000+ hour pilots are flying professionally at
least in some way or another. As such, they're also flying much more per
year than other pilots. This dramatically increases their exposure to said
risk. I guess another way of saying it is, I'm guessing that the small
percentage of 10,000+ hour pilots that are out there account for way more
than 10% if the annual flying hours.

I believe that it is a huge mistake to teaach student pilots that at a
given power setting their aircraft will average x gallons per hour.

My 172 averages 8 gallons per hour.
About 18 months ago, on a 2.5 hour flight it averaged 12 gallons per
hour. - Fortunately I had full tanks on takeoff.
6 months ago the same thing happened - fuel consumption went from 8
gallons per hour to 12 gallons per hour.
again I was lucky - I had departed with full tanks.

On both occasions it was the same problem. A seal had failed on one of
my fuel caps and the fuel was siphoning out when airborne.

We KNOW that this can and does happen. So why do we continue to tell
students that if they plan for 8 GPH they will be safe?
It simply isn't true, and it is going to kill someone.

How many students are taught to dip the tanks AFTER they land?
None.
And, as most of them are renting, they go away happily believing that
they burned 8 gph - so they continue to plan that way - even if they are
actually burning a lot more.

So - to all of the instructors out there - why not just teach them to
never trust anything, and if they regularly rent the same aircraft, dip
tanks before and after, so they KNOW the fuel consumption, rather than
continue to operate on some totally arbitrary figure based on a new
aircraft, rather that the 30 year old junker that they actually fly.

OK. Pet peeve over. We now retun you to your regular programming

Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE



In article ,
(Robert M. Gary) wrote:

The local news is reporting that a local CFI (with over 30,000 hours
of instruction giving since the early 1960's) ran out of gas just
short of the airport after picking up a P210 and flying back from
Texas to California. Boy, if it can happen to him, it can happen to
anyone. It will be interesting to see the final facts. Perhaps the
plane was burning way more gas than it should have (the plane had been
bought that day).

-Robert




--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

tony roberts wrote:
I believe that it is a huge mistake to teaach student pilots that at a
given power setting their aircraft will average x gallons per hour.

so what would you teach them? If you dipped before and after and
noticed the fuel consumption all over the place, they still rent and
can only do it by the book plus a safety margin. That safety margin
can't be 50% like your 8 to 12 gph otherwise we'd never get a XC
in as we'd always be stopping for fuel every 5nm. The only
way around this is to have reliable and accurate gauges. I still
don't know why it is that difficult to make these.

Gerald