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#21
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"Beav" wrote in message ...
"helicopterandy" wrote in message om... SEAN, I DIDN'T MEAN HE ROLLED OFF THE POWER, ONLY THAT HE LOWERED COLLECTIVE TO FULL DOWN TO COUNTER THE LOSS OF TAIL ROTOR. Loweriing collective wouldn't do anything for the tail rotor action. If the tail rotor DID fail, then the pilot would need to remove the TORQUE whivh the tail rotor now can't counter, and that's when the rollong power off would come in handy. Beavis(boy, does your name fit!!), How long have you been studying helicopters? Five minutes? Saying as you did above that "lowering the collective wouldn't do anything for the tail rotor action" speaks volumes of your obvious lack of even the basics of flying helis. But then you do a 180 and say that "that's when rolling off the throttle would come in handy"... Let me assure you of one thing above all else, YOU NEVER roll off the throttle unless the collective is in a full down position. EVER. If I have to explain this to you then you really shouldn't try to get involved in a discussion you know ZERO about. Sorry, I guess you cannot learn that with your remote control can you? Do us all a favor and go buy a Rotorcraft Flying Handbook and READ IT. Your stupidity is exactly why this site is so poor. Please don't come to our Yahoo group. Regards, Mark BUT HE MAY HAVE ROLLED OFF POWER (WHO KNOWS) BUT THEN HE HAD TO ROLL POWER BACK ON BEFORE HE PULLED IN POWER(COLLECTIVE) AGAIN TO ARREST HIS DESCENT AS HE NEARED THE ROOFTOPS. This is a turbine heli. Rolling power on and off "that" quickly isn't going to happen. I suspect the pilot knows that though. THEN HE GOT THE SEVERE YAW AGAIN. IF HE DIDN'T HAVE THE POWER BACK ON WHEN HE PULLED COLLECTIVE THE BOTTOM WOULD HAVE FELL OUT OF THE SHIP VERY QUICKLY If he had a tail rotor problem, the LAST thing he'd do is add power.Well maybe if he liked flying a Waltzer he'd add power, but if he's already cut power, he woudn't be in a hurry to re-apply it (even if he could) AND HE WOULD HAVE PUT THAT SHIP THROUGH THOSE ROOFS INSTEAD OF ON TOP OF THEM. I think he was simply lucky. I don't think a lot of what followed the initial departure was down to skill at all, but we all need a bit of luck now and again. -- Beav Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com" (with the obvious changes) Beavisland now lives at www.beavisoriginal.co.uk |
#22
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So why is it that you never reduce throttle without lowering collective?
Loss off main rotor momentum? |
#23
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helicopterandy wrote:
throttle would come in handy"... Let me assure you of one thing above all else, YOU NEVER roll off the throttle unless the collective is in a full down position. EVER. Hmmm! I have my H-57 (Bell Jetranger) NATOPS manual in front of me. Emergency procedures, Complete loss of tail rotor thrust, step 1: "Twist grip - Close" Never say never. Ever. |
#24
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Jim Carriere wrote:
Hmmm! I have my H-57 (Bell Jetranger) NATOPS manual in front of me. Emergency procedures, Complete loss of tail rotor thrust, step 1: "Twist grip - Close" Never say never. Ever. Sounds like handy Randy should take his own advice and stay out of "OUR" Yahoo group himself. |
#25
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"helicopterandy" wrote in message om... "Beav" wrote in message ... "helicopterandy" wrote in message om... SEAN, I DIDN'T MEAN HE ROLLED OFF THE POWER, ONLY THAT HE LOWERED COLLECTIVE TO FULL DOWN TO COUNTER THE LOSS OF TAIL ROTOR. Loweriing collective wouldn't do anything for the tail rotor action. If the tail rotor DID fail, then the pilot would need to remove the TORQUE whivh the tail rotor now can't counter, and that's when the rollong power off would come in handy. Beavis(boy, does your name fit!!), Oooh, never heard THAT before. How long have you been studying helicopters? Five minutes? Saying as you did above that "lowering the collective wouldn't do anything for the tail rotor action" speaks volumes of your obvious lack of even the basics of flying helis. Oh yeah? Well explain to me how lowering the collective without reducing power would affect the effect (action) of the tail and improve matters in the scenrio. If anything, lowering collective would result in a reduced load on the rotor system and an INCREASE in rotor speed and a corresponding increase in tail rotor speed, which as you'll recal is no longer controllable, so the net result would be in increase in yaw rate. Lowering collective alone would NOT do anything for the uncontrolled yaw which our intrepid pilot was encountering. But then you do a 180 and say that "that's when rolling off the throttle would come in handy"... And that's exactly when it WILL come in handy. If the tail rotor failure resulted in the heli still turning against torque, (and it did) there are only two ways to help control the yaw. One is to use the anti-torque pedlas (not going to happen if they're not doing their job) and the other is to reduce power/torque. that usually happens when you remove some power. Let me assure you of one thing above all else, YOU NEVER roll off the throttle unless the collective is in a full down position. EVER. I imagine that when faced with a looming building, I'd let that particular rule go by the wayside. I suspect the damage caused by an overspeed might be "slightly" less than the amount of damage a building makes. If I have to explain this to you then you really shouldn't try to get involved in a discussion you know ZERO about. I'll try hard to remember that. Sorry, I guess you cannot learn that with your remote control can you? I don't need to. Do us all a favor and go buy a Rotorcraft Flying Handbook and READ IT. Your stupidity is exactly why this site is so poor. If this site os so poor, what're you doing here? Please don't come to our Yahoo group. I'll come where I want if it's all the same to you. -- Beav Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com" (with the obvious changes) Beavisland now lives at www.beavisoriginal.co.uk |
#26
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"Jim Carriere" wrote in message
... helicopterandy wrote: throttle would come in handy"... Let me assure you of one thing above all else, YOU NEVER roll off the throttle unless the collective is in a full down position. EVER. Hmmm! I have my H-57 (Bell Jetranger) NATOPS manual in front of me. Emergency procedures, Complete loss of tail rotor thrust, step 1: "Twist grip - Close" Never say never. Ever. Well, I agree he may have come across a little sharp on the "never" part and you make a good point on the "never say never" point. I try to live by that one but sometimes I slip a little. ;-) Having said that, what does your H-57 manual say you'd better be doing very shortly "after" closing the twist grip? If it doesn't say something about lowering the collective, I'm not sure I'd trust much else it says. :-o :-D Fly Safe, Steve R. |
#27
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How long have you been studying helicopters? Five minutes? Saying as
you did above that "lowering the collective wouldn't do anything for the tail rotor action" speaks volumes of your obvious lack of even the basics of flying helis. Oh yeah? Well explain to me how lowering the collective without reducing power would affect the effect (action) of the tail and improve matters in the scenrio. If anything, lowering collective would result in a reduced load on the rotor system and an INCREASE in rotor speed and a corresponding increase in tail rotor speed, which as you'll recal is no longer controllable, so the net result would be in increase in yaw rate. Lowering collective alone would NOT do anything for the uncontrolled yaw which our intrepid pilot was encountering. BEAVIS, YOUR ABOVE POST IS SO WRONG AND MISGUIDED THAT I WON'T BOTHER RESPONDING TO YOU ANY FURTHER AFTER THIS ONE. BUT DO YOURSELF ONE FAVOR BEFORE YOU AGAIN MAKE AN IDIOT OUT OF YOURSELF HE ASK ANY HELICOPTER PILOT WHO FLYS A SHIP THAT HAS A COUNTER-CLOCKWISE ROTATION MAIN ROTOR WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU LOWER COLLECTIVE? HINT: YOU GET A NICE YAW TO THE LEFT SINCE YOU ARE TAKING TORQUE/POWER OUT OF THE SYSTEM AND SO YOU NEED TO APPLY RIGHT PEDAL. THAT RIGHT PEDAL TAKES THE PITCH/THRUST OUT OF THE TAIL ROTOR. WHEN YOU LOWER COLLECTIVE YOU ARE REDUCING POWER, MORON. STOP THINKING THAT POWER IS ONLY REDUCED BY REDUCING ROTOR SPEED. GO STUDY JUST A BIT. ONE MORE THING, THE FIRST THING MOST PILOT OPERATING HANDBOOKS STATE IS THAT IN THE EVENT OF LOSS OF TAIL ROTOR EFFECTIVENESS IN FLIGHT THE FIRST THING THE PILOT SHOULD DO IS LOWER COLLECTIVE. YOU ARE TRYING TO ARGUE ALGEBRA WITH A MATH PRO WHEN YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW WHAT 2 PLUS 2 EQUALS. GO BACK TO YOUR TOYS. REGARDS, MARK PS HOW MANY PIC HOURS DO YOU HAVE IN HELICOPERS? I'D GUESS ZERO. NO WAIT, I'D GUARANTEE THAT YOU HAVE ZERO. He he |
#28
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helicopterandy wrote:
GO BACK TO YOUR TOYS. REGARDS, MARK To the Group......... Yunno folks I've been lurking in this group for a number of years now, posting under various names now and again. Like most in this group I try to keep a civil tongue in my head and since I'm only an armchair pilot I sure wouldn't try to argue technicalities of flight, etc. I'm basically a knife and forker, a gladhander, who does what he can to promote a little chitchat, I pat people on the back for their accomplishments, and achievements.... blah blah blah blah blah. But yunno folks I just gotta say it..... In the years that I've been in this group I don't believe I have ever seen anyone like Mark who has just shown up in this group as a relative newcomer who has had such a chip on their shoulders. Mark I don't know what your problem is but Beavis has been a somewhat regular in this group for some years and you are the first person to my knowledge who has publicly attacked him, just like your the only person who has attacked Kevin, who is doing nothing more than sharing his experiences as a student, which for one, I am personally gratefull for his efforts. You post IN ALL CAPS and have been told at least once that doing so is considered boorish, and bad manners (netiquette), but that doesn't seem to sink in or make a difference to you. So before this goes too far, why don't you come back to this group and tell all of us specifically what it is that you personally are looking for in this group. What do you expect to get out of it, and what are you willing to contribute. So far if appears that your are spoiling for a fight with whoever is handy, and with all due respect ( in my personal opinion ) you are not going to make friends, or gain the respect of too many people if you continue to carry on the way you are doing. |
#29
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helicopterandy wrote:
BEAVIS, YOUR ABOVE POST IS SO WRONG AND MISGUIDED THAT I WON'T BOTHER RESPONDING TO YOU ANY FURTHER AFTER THIS ONE. BUT DO YOURSELF ONE (snip) You are full of it. Before you go off the hook, please understand that I mean you no disrespect, yet. Don't yell. Typing in all caps is deafening. Don't say something is wrong and misguided and idiotic without giving an immediate explanation. From what I am able to gather from your post, you don't acknowledge the fact that the rudder pedals are useless. In model helicopter terms, the left and right rudder are useless. In 'real' helicopter terms, again the rudder pedals are useless... What exactly is your problem with his statement? Please state it civilly. Max of Mad -- Leave a tone after the message |
#30
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"Shiver Me Timbers" wrote in message ... helicopterandy wrote: GO BACK TO YOUR TOYS. REGARDS, MARK To the Group......... Yunno folks I've been lurking in this group for a SNIP Before this goes to far this has been cross posted to both full size and model helicopters and we are are areguing why we are getting slagged off "in our group" but we are posting to "thier group as well" just bear it it mind before all the toys are missing from your pram and as for helicopterandy "PLONK" what a prat??? Keep up the good work Beavis and just kill file him hes not worth the typing |
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