Canadian pilot posts ILLEGAL flight into US on OLC

On Thursday, July 25, 2019 at 2:58:23 PM UTC-7, Charles Longley wrote:
FAR 91.707
Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate a civil aircraft between Mexico or Canada and the United States without filing an IFR or VFR flight plan, as appropriate.

You don’t need a clearance to enter US airspace Tom. Just file a VFR flight plan. There’s no ADIZ between Canada and the US by the way.

Personally I think you’re jealous....

LOL! Jealous? Hardly.

Based on what I read on the FAA's website, a landing at a port of entry was required, which Chester did not do. It is the FAA's website that is, apparently, wrong or inaccurate. I am awaiting a call back from my local FSDO on this issue.

Tom

I'm happy to see the fears about cross-border flights get hashed out in a public forum.

After my last flight well into the USA, I called Helena and Great Falls customs, to discuss what would have happened if I had landed out. They had both heard about the flight. ATC wasn't 100% convinced I was not going to land, and had called customs. Lesson learned - be totally clear in your flight plan.

I will make a note in OLC in the future that the overflight was legal.

So I fly out of Ephrata and Arlington, WA. What would make the Canadians happy if I flew into their airspace? I am probably going to install a transponder this winter.

On Thursday, July 25, 2019 at 10:34:54 AM UTC-6, Charles Longley wrote:
So I fly out of Ephrata and Arlington, WA. What would make the Canadians happy if I flew into their airspace? I am probably going to install a transponder this winter.

1) You would file an American Flight Plan 1-800-WX-BRIEF (took me forever to figure out that you file the flight plan for the country where you are taking off from)

2) Talk to USA ATC for your area, get a transponder code. In Canada, we squawk 1202 until they give us a different code. You might be able to do this on the ground before taking off.

3) Tell USA ATC as you approach the border that you are leaving, switch over to Canada ATC. I think you would be talking to one of the "East" frequencies on this page. http://www.canairradio.com/bc.html They are likely hailed as Pacific Center.

Not sure what happens if you drop below transponder coverage.

At 16:52 25 July 2019, wrote:
On Thursday, July 25, 2019 at 10:34:54 AM UTC-6, Charles
Longley wrote:
So I fly out of Ephrata and Arlington, WA. What would make the
Canadians
happy if I flew into their airspace? I am probably going to install a
transponder this winter.

1) You would file an American Flight Plan 1-800-WX-BRIEF (took
me forever
to figure out that you file the flight plan for the country where you
are
taking off from)

2) Talk to USA ATC for your area, get a transponder code. In
Canada, we
squawk 1202 until they give us a different code. You might be
able to do
this on the ground before taking off.

3) Tell USA ATC as you approach the border that you are leaving,
switch
over to Canada ATC. I think you would be talking to one of the
"East"
frequencies on this page. http://www.canairradio.com/bc.html
They are
likely hailed as Pacific Center.

Not sure what happens if you drop below transponder coverage.

I think that Chester's flight is a new record for Canadian Territorial
Free Out & Return.
Well done Chester.

If you fly from the US into Canada, ATC or FSS likely can tell you the adjacent Canadian ATC frequency you need to talk to.

See below for NavCanada FISE:

http://www.navcanada.ca/EN/products-...tives-rco.aspx

Unfortunately Canada has Class B over 12,500 in low level airways and terminal areas which requires a clearance. Close to the border, Class B holes are few and far between.

wrote on 7/25/2019 9:52 AM:
On Thursday, July 25, 2019 at 10:34:54 AM UTC-6, Charles Longley wrote:
So I fly out of Ephrata and Arlington, WA. What would make the Canadians happy if I flew into their airspace? I am probably going to install a transponder this winter.

1) You would file an American Flight Plan 1-800-WX-BRIEF (took me forever to figure out that you file the flight plan for the country where you are taking off from)

2) Talk to USA ATC for your area, get a transponder code. In Canada, we squawk 1202 until they give us a different code. You might be able to do this on the ground before taking off.

3) Tell USA ATC as you approach the border that you are leaving, switch over to Canada ATC. I think you would be talking to one of the "East" frequencies on this page. http://www.canairradio.com/bc.html They are likely hailed as Pacific Center.

Not sure what happens if you drop below transponder coverage.

I'm pleased your flight was legal. I'm not likely to try a cross-border flight,
but now I can fantasize about it more knowledgeably.

Did USA ATC have you use "flight following"? Did you have to have a flight plan
for the entire flight, or just the US portion? And I wonder about each countries
ATC response to several gliders on the same mission the same day.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

I have had Salt Lake Center offer flight following; Edmonton Center sometimes offers as well. I assume the US side keeps a close eye on me, even when I'm not being "flight followed".

The flight plan covers the entire flight. I keep my flight plan vague, that's the reality of gliding.

My concern with ATC is their workload. Don't make them worry about you, tell them when you are heading back to Canada. If there was a half-dozen experienced pilots doing the same flight, I think ATC would accept it. By contrast, if you have 6 canadian gliders transiting the descent airways into Calgary, that quickly becomes untenable.

Cruising along the eastern slopes north of Helena is not going to be conflicting with a lot of jet traffic descending into big airports. I'm not going to drop behind a mountain and disappear off radar because I'm effectively flying on the prairies. If the wave dies, I have a 50+ kt tailwind out of the SW, easily giving me glide to Canada. If I don't have glide to Canada, the engine comes out over an airport. If the engine fails, let ATC know and accept that I might have to explain this weird hobby to a judge.

The further south the flight goes, the risk of not making it home goes up. Wave terrain continues way south of Jackson Hole, but at some point (around Helena, in my estimation) it makes sense to land, clear Customs, and continue on with less potential legal consequences.


Chester

I'm pleased your flight was legal. I'm not likely to try a cross-border flight,
but now I can fantasize about it more knowledgeably.

Did USA ATC have you use "flight following"? Did you have to have a flight plan
for the entire flight, or just the US portion? And I wonder about each countries
ATC response to several gliders on the same mission the same day.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

I really hope the patriot who started this thread can't delete it - so valuable!

I've been a part of one of these flights (wave and border flirting) - nearly 8 hours @ 100mph, 10 days before the winter solstice. It was a completely different sport and the most spectacular human experience. Thank you!

Chester and I talked a lot about managing the airspace on that flight and afterward, and he has dedicated a lot of time, effort and consideration toward not only doing this legally but to do it that respects the controllers and the law - make friends, not foes.

This wave has been here for a while, it'll be here for a while longer, and the Arcus is just barely celebrating its first year out of the box. Patience, young man, patience, we're just getting warmed up, making sure the ground rules are known before he puts the nose down.

Puzzle pieces.

Some things Chester wants you to learn for yourself, but how to keep friends, and follow the rules, he's evidently happy to share - and we're all better for it.

Thanks Chester!

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019 at 10:22:27 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
This pilot made a DEEP entry into the US w/o, apparently, following the laws of the US:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....l?dsId=7436890

Here is what you have to do PRIOR to flying into the US, regardless of whether or not you are a US citizen:

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...ions/airspace/

Here is just one excerpt:

That was a very nice flight, keep up the good work and come back soon.
All civil, private aircraft entering the U.S. must first land at an airport of entry before continuing to their destinations, unless other arrangements are made with U.S. CBP.

The penalties for violating these laws is pretty stiff, including confiscation of the offending aircraft. And, if you are going to break US law anyhow, DON'T post your flight on the Internet!